Rebranding for the Better with Paul Sponcia

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Paul: People want somebody who's buttoned up and

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understands their business and can help them navigate these

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uncharted waters and make sense of all this technology.

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I think branding is a big piece of that.

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Chris: Welcome to We Built This Brand.

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I'm your host, Chris Hill.

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And today we're talking to Paul Sponcia,

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the principal and CEO of the IT company.

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Paul has a history of helping build great

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IT service brands here in East Tennessee.

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Be that Claris Networks or his current business, the IT company.

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Paul actually joined the IT company back in 2010, which at that time

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was a company named CSK Technologies and he oversaw a rather dramatic

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brand refresh at CSK, transforming IT from CSK into the IT company.

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And in this episode, we're gonna do a deep dive into that story, why they chose

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the brand, the process of rebranding, and the eventual outcomes of that process.

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I've known Paul for quite a while.

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We've known each other since I was a.

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And he was working with my dad, and then now, you know, we've been

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able to work in the same industries together over the years, and

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I've even literally gotten to work across the street from Paul.

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So, It's been really cool to know of him over the years, to bump into

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him, places, and so to finally get to sit down and actually learn more

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about his story, how the IT company came to be, and everything else

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that you'll hear today, I think was really illuminating and really fun.

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So we go into a lot of detail about all of that, why it matters, we talk about

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a lot of branding stuff, and frankly, even if you're not interested, Paul has a

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lot of good wisdom to share, and I think you'll get a lot out of this episode.

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Without further ado, here's my interview with

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Paul Sponcia, Principal and CEO of the IT company.

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Alrighty, welcome back.

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I'm Chris Hill, as always, and with me today is Paul Sponcia.

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Paul, welcome.

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Paul: Thanks.

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Glad to be here.

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Thanks for having me.

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Chris: Yeah, yeah.

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Paul, when we, um, we've known each other a while, I feel like, just in

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passing or through different, Professional jobs and things like that.

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Me working at AT& T.

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I remember having to work with you all on some projects when you

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all were the, I guess, more the early days of the IT company.

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So

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Paul: probably, probably digital crossing as well.

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Back in those days, I would think maybe,

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Chris: yeah,

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Paul: certainly, certainly years and years and years with your dad as well.

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Yeah,

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Chris: my dad, for sure.

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Paul: Back to swim, back to swim team at Gulfwood.

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Chris: Oh yeah.

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Yeah.

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Those were the days I love, I love the swim team there and lifeguarding there

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too, watching, probably watching some of your kids and stuff growing up.

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So that's awesome.

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But yeah, so we've, we've known each other a while

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and you know, over that time I've, I've gotten to see.

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I'm sure you've gotten to see some of my career growth.

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I've gotten to see some of your career go and, you know, grow

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over time and lead to where it is today at the IT company.

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And one of the cool things that I wanted to do today is really do kind

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of more of a deep dive into the evolution of what it takes to go from

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moving a business from, you know, maybe a more traditional service that

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it's used to offering to newer technologies and a newer transition.

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That transformation is not easy for anybody.

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I think you and I can both safely say we've been in the, in telecom in a

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time of great transition going from traditional landlines to high speed

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internet and then on to cell phones and higher technology stuff, higher even

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than cell phones, you know, cloud managed services and things like that.

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And just the world we, you know, think nothing of today,

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but, you know, several years ago was quite a big transition.

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So we'd love to just dive into that with you today and how you had to rebrand.

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What was CSK Technologies into the IT company?

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So let's dive in a little bit and talk a little bit more about your

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background first, because as much as we know each other, most of the

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audience doesn't know who you are, so I'd love for you to just share a little

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bit about your background and what led to you being with the IT company.

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Paul: Yeah, I've been, uh, space of some type of IT

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services, managed IT, gosh, since 1996, a long time.

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Yeah, it's a really, really long time.

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So it came out of a construction company where I was in IT and wrote some

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software and anyhow, created a managed IT company, uh, known as Claris Networks.

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So I spent 11 years building that company, left there, uh, spent a couple

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of years doing some consulting for a couple of managed IT companies.

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And at Claris too, we went through a rebrand.

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We were actually RM Technologies first,

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and then we rebranded as Claris Networks.

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And so marketing and branding have always been a very,

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very important thing to me, extremely important to me.

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I've always felt like there's something powerful

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about a brand, um, even a brand with just an icon.

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I remember.

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When we were thinking about rebranding to Claris, one of the things I remember

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telling the folks that were working on it was, you know, you always know

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what the AT& T, speaking of AT& T, you always know what the AT& T symbol is.

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Like, when you see that little symbol, everybody

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knows that's AT& T when you see the swoosh.

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Everybody knows that's Nike when you see the three stripes.

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Everybody knows that's Adidas, you know, so I'd harken it to that.

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Like, I want something that when you just see the icon, you know who it is.

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Um, so branding has always been really important to me, but,

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um, I joined CSK, what was CSK in December of 2010, and I

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knew that we needed to do A rebrand, uh, relatively soon.

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I knew that the name was, uh, nothing wrong with the name.

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It was the founders and, and his wife's initials.

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But I knew it didn't carry enough from a branding

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perspective for us to really be able to create a mark

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and a style and all the things I, I felt were important.

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Chris: Right.

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Paul: So anyhow, that was that.

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I joined it in 2010 and it wasn't too long

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before I was like, we need a new face,

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Chris: And, and, and I totally get that.

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Having, having been in telecom of that era.

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Like a lot of the tech companies that were the IT support

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companies that were, you know, local to the areas that I

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operated in were these like CSK technologies or RM technologies.

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They were initials first and never really exactly knew

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what they stood for or why you just knew they were.

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And that was great for, I guess, word of mouth, but you know, for

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a new business looking for, you know, an IT company, you know,

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something like RM technologies doesn't just like Automatically spark.

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Oh, this is the company.

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I need to help me solve my problems, right?

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Paul: Yeah.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah, that was, you know, both of those names, there was always

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something about it that I knew would have to be different

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because it didn't make it didn't just make enough sense.

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And I always felt too.

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Like, there's a, there's gotta be a plain way to say it.

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Even, you know, it's funny.

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Claris doesn't exist anymore, but.

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You know, Claris was a, was a combination of two Greek names that we put

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together, but it was, I wanted the word networks in it because back then

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we were a big cloud hosting company and infrastructure company, et cetera.

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So I've always been a believer too, and just say who

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you are, you know, don't, don't try to come up with, uh,

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these fancy names that nobody knows quite what they mean.

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Chris: Yeah.

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Throw, throw a bunch of things together and

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be like, we're who good dots or something.

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All right.

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Paul: Kyros, you know, it's like, you know, whatever.

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I mean, there's a lot of cool Greek names, but

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only people that study Greek know what they mean.

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Chris: Exactly.

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And how many, um, Greek scholars are you going after with the company?

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Paul: That's right.

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It's tough.

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Yeah.

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Well, we, we tend to fall in love with the things, you know, I've, I've, I've

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said this before about like, uh, product branding, like for the most part

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in these types of businesses, nobody really cares what the product's called.

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You could come up with a lot of really cool names.

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But they're probably not going to remember

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what the name of the product they bought is.

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They just know I'm calling the IT people, you know, and so other things like,

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you know, tacit things that you hold in your hand and that you touch and that

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you feel those make sense to have a name, but services are a little tougher to.

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To align all these names too, because they, I mean, it's

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fine and important, but I think largely to the customer.

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They're like, I don't even know what it's called.

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Just get it to me.

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Does it do what I need it to do?

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Does it serve the service I need?

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That's right.

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That's all I care about.

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Chris: Yeah, I've, I've definitely been there many a times.

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I remember when I first came into the telecom industry, this

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fresh out of college, I was in training and they gave me this.

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Dictionary of telecom terms.

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And then I think it was bigger than the actual dictionary itself.

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Paul: I'm sure.

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Yeah.

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A lot of acronyms.

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Chris: Yeah.

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My favorite one was going through there and finding PFM.

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And I was like, I think I'm going to use this term a lot.

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And for those that don't know, PFM just stands for pure freaking magic.

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And it just killed me that that was in that giant dictionary.

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That's funny that that was in there.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It was quite snarky.

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That's funny.

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But yeah, so like it's.

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It's definitely a challenge.

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And at the end of the day, yeah, you have

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customers that don't really understand what you do.

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They just want you to make it magically go away and magically get solved.

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I think a lot of times now, granted, you do have more high

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end customers that do understand and need to know that depth,

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but that definitely affect affects the business itself.

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So when you think about CSK and you think about where

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you were at prior to the rebrand, What was that market?

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Were you servicing a lot of high end

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customers, or where was the business position?

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Paul: Well, you know, it was, uh, the guy that founded it, Chris,

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had done a great job, but it was about a million dollar business.

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You know, it wasn't very large, uh, at the time.

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Um, not that a million dollars is, is a, is a teeny tiny

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business either, but, you know, it was doing about a million.

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And, and when you're at that size in this business, you're typically

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serving a very certain kind of customer, typically fairly small.

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Customer, uh, not as mature.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Just from a business perspective, they're not just not very mature.

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And again, everybody, everybody goes through that evolution too.

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I mean, that's just part of it.

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When you have five or 10 employees, you can't be as mature and nor do you

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need to be as mature an organization as when you're 30 or 40 or 50 employees.

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And so we did have a couple of larger customers, um, but for the most part,

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they were all Smaller, you know, 5, 10, 15 employee companies, um, not super

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mature, sophisticated, not, um, you know, not, uh, not even necessarily

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interested in kind of the higher end level of services that we sort of

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dreamed of providing and the reason I came in and it was brought in as well.

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Was to kind of take the company to the next, the next level of delivery

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and type of customer we could serve and et cetera, which is one

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funny thing is we did buy another acronym, another, uh, three letter

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company later on, which was RTL, which stood for Richard Travis lay.

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So it was another one of the, one of the initial companies.

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So there, there's a lot of them out there.

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Chris: I mean, for, for what it's worth, I remember Mitel, which is

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a big phone system company, which I think has since been acquired.

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Stood for Mike and Terry's lawn mowing.

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Paul: Oh, I didn't know that.

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Didn't really.

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Yeah.

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Chris: I'll have my editors verify that and make sure I'm

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making that up, but that's what I always remember it being.

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And they were like, yeah, it's Mike and Terry's lawn mowing

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is what they originally, and they started selling phones.

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I guess they pivoted.

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Paul: Somebody needed a phone system while they were mowing their lawn.

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Chris: That's exactly

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Paul: right.

238
00:11:00,485 --> 00:11:03,255
But yeah, the business, the business was, uh, you know, I

239
00:11:03,255 --> 00:11:07,044
think that at the time the brand fit, the business was fine.

240
00:11:07,805 --> 00:11:10,055
And to Chris, again, to Chris's credit, he had built

241
00:11:10,055 --> 00:11:14,445
a good business, but he hadn't, he didn't need to.

242
00:11:14,455 --> 00:11:15,865
And he didn't really, I don't know that he

243
00:11:15,865 --> 00:11:18,415
cared a whole lot about the branding part of it.

244
00:11:18,415 --> 00:11:22,005
You know, he, he was a technical person is very, very good at what he did.

245
00:11:22,005 --> 00:11:25,235
And he cared about, you know, serving the customer from a technical

246
00:11:25,235 --> 00:11:28,515
perspective and the brand part of it was a kind of secondary to him.

247
00:11:29,275 --> 00:11:29,515
Chris: Yeah.

248
00:11:29,705 --> 00:11:32,165
So you're, you're serving some, you know, smaller

249
00:11:32,325 --> 00:11:34,275
businesses it sounds like as you're growing.

250
00:11:34,595 --> 00:11:38,185
You have this ideal of where you want to go with services, and then

251
00:11:38,195 --> 00:11:42,465
you decide to transform the name of the company to the IT company.

252
00:11:42,725 --> 00:11:44,855
How did you get to the name, The IT Company?

253
00:11:45,045 --> 00:11:45,875
That's a really funny,

254
00:11:45,875 --> 00:11:46,875
Paul: funny story.

255
00:11:47,064 --> 00:11:50,965
I didn't know until much later how genius the name was that

256
00:11:50,974 --> 00:11:54,014
somebody, a friend of mine who was a competitor told me later.

257
00:11:54,054 --> 00:11:56,494
He was so pissed when he, when I took that name.

258
00:11:57,564 --> 00:11:57,935
Dang it.

259
00:11:57,964 --> 00:11:58,895
Why didn't I think of that?

260
00:11:59,055 --> 00:12:00,785
But, uh, it's really funny.

261
00:12:00,785 --> 00:12:03,704
I got some really smart people together in the room and it

262
00:12:03,704 --> 00:12:09,024
was, uh, I remember it was, um, Alex Lavage, Chris McAdoo.

263
00:12:09,204 --> 00:12:11,104
Gosh, I remember, I can't remember who else it was.

264
00:12:11,104 --> 00:12:12,314
There were two other people.

265
00:12:12,444 --> 00:12:16,824
And I said, Hey, I want to pay you guys to help me think about a name.

266
00:12:17,015 --> 00:12:19,504
And, you know, we went through traditional process.

267
00:12:19,505 --> 00:12:21,885
If you've ever been through that from a marketing perspective

268
00:12:21,885 --> 00:12:25,204
and asking you a lot of questions, a lot of whiteboard sessions.

269
00:12:25,610 --> 00:12:28,579
And I was like, I don't know, there's this name I like, I just, it's kind

270
00:12:28,579 --> 00:12:32,210
of like the IT company, just like, why don't we just call it what it is?

271
00:12:32,220 --> 00:12:36,770
And they're like, nah, that's really not, you know, it's not that cool.

272
00:12:36,770 --> 00:12:39,619
And it's just not, I don't know, it doesn't really speak to me.

273
00:12:39,619 --> 00:12:40,579
It's not that sexy.

274
00:12:40,579 --> 00:12:41,600
And I was like, yeah.

275
00:12:41,699 --> 00:12:46,810
So I think I spent like 10 grand going through this process and all these names.

276
00:12:46,810 --> 00:12:49,189
And I was like, I'm just going to keep the IT company up there.

277
00:12:49,300 --> 00:12:49,579
Chris: Yeah.

278
00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:50,220
Paul: And I just.

279
00:12:50,730 --> 00:12:53,050
Just never fell in love with any of the other names.

280
00:12:53,090 --> 00:12:56,100
And I was like, you know what, guys, we're just going to call it the IT company.

281
00:12:57,710 --> 00:12:59,960
And so thanks for all your time.

282
00:13:00,050 --> 00:13:04,490
And these all, I need to go back and see if I have some of the notes

283
00:13:04,490 --> 00:13:07,509
and stuff that we took from that and some of the names we came up

284
00:13:07,510 --> 00:13:10,840
with, because some of them were things like Kairos and, you know, like.

285
00:13:11,079 --> 00:13:13,590
Greek and Hebrew and Latin and putting names

286
00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:15,500
together and, you know, all this stuff.

287
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:19,189
And so, but yeah, that's, I mean, I was just like, I don't know.

288
00:13:19,189 --> 00:13:20,799
Why don't we just call it what it is?

289
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,059
We're an IT company.

290
00:13:23,060 --> 00:13:27,600
So why don't we just call it the IT company and, uh, see how that works.

291
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,640
And, uh, and that's what we, and that's really legitimately how I got there.

292
00:13:31,939 --> 00:13:34,339
And then the, the, the mark itself.

293
00:13:34,574 --> 00:13:34,964
I don't know.

294
00:13:34,975 --> 00:13:36,255
I've always liked a circle.

295
00:13:36,475 --> 00:13:40,665
Um, and part of that is like, I like the idea of something complete, you know,

296
00:13:40,694 --> 00:13:43,725
the soul, same thing with, you know, a ring, you go through the ceremony, right?

297
00:13:43,735 --> 00:13:46,105
And you get married and they talk about perfect circle and

298
00:13:46,194 --> 00:13:48,855
it, there's nothing in it that's broken and all that stuff.

299
00:13:48,855 --> 00:13:50,584
So I always liked the idea of a circle.

300
00:13:50,584 --> 00:13:54,665
I thought it fit well in the tray of the computer as the icon.

301
00:13:54,694 --> 00:13:57,035
Cause in our business, there's like a little icon for

302
00:13:57,035 --> 00:14:00,214
people to click on and request support or whatever.

303
00:14:00,214 --> 00:14:02,660
And so I thought it would always be You know,

304
00:14:02,660 --> 00:14:05,780
something that would look cool as a circle in the tray.

305
00:14:05,790 --> 00:14:09,230
And I don't know, I just was like, let's just do this IT thing.

306
00:14:09,540 --> 00:14:10,580
I can't even remember.

307
00:14:10,730 --> 00:14:15,129
I think it was, it was actually McAdoo when he had Best Behavior Creative Club.

308
00:14:15,270 --> 00:14:18,690
He was always so, always so interesting with the names that Chris came up with.

309
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:20,769
I don't know where that one came from.

310
00:14:20,780 --> 00:14:22,009
Best Behavior Creative Club.

311
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:22,640
I should ask him.

312
00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:27,780
But, um, yeah, I kind of gave him the idea of the logo that I was

313
00:14:27,780 --> 00:14:30,700
thinking, and he, he came up with the first, we actually just went

314
00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:35,340
through another rebrand or, uh, not a name, but a logo refresh, I guess.

315
00:14:35,490 --> 00:14:38,309
And, uh, and, but Chris did the very 1st 1 we ever did.

316
00:14:38,420 --> 00:14:38,950
Chris: That's awesome.

317
00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:39,760
Yeah.

318
00:14:39,989 --> 00:14:40,539
I remember.

319
00:14:40,860 --> 00:14:44,340
When the IT company came on onto the scene and seeing

320
00:14:44,530 --> 00:14:47,380
and hearing like the IT company, that's just so generic.

321
00:14:49,239 --> 00:14:52,170
But it, it's kind of clever because like when someone

322
00:14:52,170 --> 00:14:55,960
goes to Google an IT company for Knoxville and they

323
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,609
type in IT company, Knoxville, you're going to come up.

324
00:14:58,985 --> 00:15:03,615
Paul: Yeah, that was really the, that I, that was the last thing I thought ever.

325
00:15:03,695 --> 00:15:05,905
I mean, it was, I actually didn't even think about that.

326
00:15:05,905 --> 00:15:08,395
It was like, not even on my radar.

327
00:15:08,585 --> 00:15:11,544
And, uh, that was what my buddy, uh, said later.

328
00:15:11,544 --> 00:15:12,564
He goes, I was so pissed.

329
00:15:12,565 --> 00:15:13,605
Cause I was like, dang it.

330
00:15:13,645 --> 00:15:15,704
Like now, every time somebody searches IT company

331
00:15:15,704 --> 00:15:17,735
Knoxville, they're going to find the IT company.

332
00:15:18,035 --> 00:15:20,495
And I was like, yeah, I didn't really think about that.

333
00:15:20,555 --> 00:15:25,435
Funny enough, we just finally, yesterday, were able to buy the itcompany.

334
00:15:25,435 --> 00:15:25,775
com.

335
00:15:25,990 --> 00:15:26,290
The domain.

336
00:15:26,650 --> 00:15:29,800
So for all these years, we've been, uh, theitco.

337
00:15:29,810 --> 00:15:32,740
net, which is a freaking pain to explain to people and

338
00:15:32,740 --> 00:15:36,490
say, and so we just were able to acquire theitcompany.

339
00:15:36,559 --> 00:15:37,659
com, which is pretty cool.

340
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:38,939
Chris: Congratulations.

341
00:15:38,939 --> 00:15:40,570
That's I know how domains go.

342
00:15:40,570 --> 00:15:41,360
That's a big deal.

343
00:15:41,550 --> 00:15:45,829
Paul: Yeah, it was, uh, it wasn't, it wasn't cheap to acquire it, but,

344
00:15:45,829 --> 00:15:50,309
uh, but it was, and it wasn't also, you know, crazy, but yeah, worth it.

345
00:15:50,310 --> 00:15:52,120
So super, super pumped about that.

346
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:52,910
Chris: That's awesome.

347
00:15:53,155 --> 00:15:55,645
So I know this rebrand wasn't just about the name.

348
00:15:55,935 --> 00:15:57,795
It wasn't just about the content.

349
00:15:57,815 --> 00:16:01,145
There was also some, maybe some technical stuff, services,

350
00:16:01,155 --> 00:16:04,705
products, things like that, that changed with this rebrand as well.

351
00:16:04,985 --> 00:16:07,105
What was that process like?

352
00:16:07,345 --> 00:16:12,455
How challenging was that for a company that was used to just being CSK?

353
00:16:12,575 --> 00:16:15,064
Paul: Well, I think there's a lot more to it.

354
00:16:15,105 --> 00:16:19,864
I mean, from an outward marketing perspective, that's the easy part.

355
00:16:19,925 --> 00:16:21,965
You know, I I've said this many times to

356
00:16:21,965 --> 00:16:24,555
people who've asked me like building Claris.

357
00:16:24,744 --> 00:16:27,474
This sounds very trivial, so I don't mean it or try it that way.

358
00:16:27,484 --> 00:16:30,004
It was a whole lot easier than building this company.

359
00:16:30,464 --> 00:16:34,004
So, because Claris was invented from the ground up, you know, and it

360
00:16:34,004 --> 00:16:38,424
was, it was like, I was able to shape and mold and build the culture, you

361
00:16:38,424 --> 00:16:41,754
know, as from, from the beginning, the brand, the culture, everything.

362
00:16:41,765 --> 00:16:44,254
And I think in a small business, that's a point

363
00:16:44,254 --> 00:16:46,415
that I think is important is in a small business.

364
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:49,500
You know, the business largely takes on the brand and the culture

365
00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:52,630
of whoever that person is that's the leader, the owner, the

366
00:16:52,630 --> 00:16:56,430
inventor, or the, or those few people that are a part of it.

367
00:16:56,490 --> 00:17:00,050
And usually there is one particular one who it takes kind

368
00:17:00,050 --> 00:17:02,589
of the, it's like, it's almost like your child, right?

369
00:17:02,589 --> 00:17:04,179
It becomes like, oh, this one child looks

370
00:17:04,179 --> 00:17:05,800
more like their dad than their mom, right?

371
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,990
That, you know, so your company sign, it kind of begins to look like you.

372
00:17:08,990 --> 00:17:11,190
So I'm sure Chris, your company does, right?

373
00:17:11,190 --> 00:17:14,800
Your company's culture is largely a by product of who Chris Hill is.

374
00:17:15,010 --> 00:17:18,500
And so Claris was largely a byproduct of who Paul Sponcia was

375
00:17:19,020 --> 00:17:22,030
because that was the company that I, you know, it was my company.

376
00:17:22,030 --> 00:17:23,069
I largely built it.

377
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:24,510
This was very different.

378
00:17:24,689 --> 00:17:27,810
You know, this was, uh, a company that had a

379
00:17:27,810 --> 00:17:31,449
culture that wasn't cultivated and wasn't curated.

380
00:17:31,459 --> 00:17:33,490
It was just, it just kind of happened.

381
00:17:33,710 --> 00:17:35,780
And it was largely followed by Chris.

382
00:17:35,790 --> 00:17:37,639
And again, we talked about that, right?

383
00:17:37,639 --> 00:17:42,080
Chris was a great technical, very, I mean, actually one of the absolute

384
00:17:42,290 --> 00:17:46,389
most brilliant, brightest humans I've ever met, like, crazy, wicked

385
00:17:46,389 --> 00:17:51,060
smart, but the company largely followed him and his brand and who he was.

386
00:17:51,295 --> 00:17:56,254
And so having to change that was super hard and I gave him a lot of props.

387
00:17:56,254 --> 00:18:00,655
Like, he was very humble and very much said, yeah, you do what you got to do.

388
00:18:00,705 --> 00:18:01,604
It's not going to be easy.

389
00:18:01,604 --> 00:18:04,284
There's gonna be things I hate about it, you know, but I know

390
00:18:04,285 --> 00:18:06,494
that that's why you're here and that's what you're here to do.

391
00:18:06,694 --> 00:18:07,694
So super tough.

392
00:18:07,744 --> 00:18:10,269
I mean, like there were, as a matter of fact, there's not a single.

393
00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:13,430
I'm the only person that exists from that day

394
00:18:13,450 --> 00:18:17,949
that I started, you know, in December of 2010.

395
00:18:17,950 --> 00:18:20,869
And I don't say that lightly, like, letting people go

396
00:18:20,869 --> 00:18:23,650
and then moving on is a very, very difficult thing.

397
00:18:23,810 --> 00:18:26,770
But that's part of a rebrand too, is like, when you

398
00:18:26,770 --> 00:18:30,655
change the The brand, there's a cultural element in that

399
00:18:30,655 --> 00:18:33,675
as well that you're changing, um, at that scale, right?

400
00:18:33,675 --> 00:18:35,365
Like we weren't, like what we did with the IT

401
00:18:35,485 --> 00:18:38,575
company logo last year is not the same thing.

402
00:18:38,595 --> 00:18:39,084
It's like,

403
00:18:40,514 --> 00:18:40,804
that's

404
00:18:40,804 --> 00:18:40,994
right.

405
00:18:41,004 --> 00:18:42,964
That's just a refresh of our logo.

406
00:18:42,965 --> 00:18:45,905
This was actually a whole rebrand of the, who the

407
00:18:45,905 --> 00:18:48,385
company was and what we did and how we did it.

408
00:18:48,705 --> 00:18:52,985
And what we wanted to be in the kind of the level of professionalism, you

409
00:18:52,985 --> 00:18:57,514
know, that I wanted us to have, you know, was just at an at another level.

410
00:18:57,524 --> 00:18:59,365
And again, that's want to be real careful.

411
00:18:59,365 --> 00:19:00,735
It's not a knock on Chris.

412
00:19:00,745 --> 00:19:03,184
It's just, I looked at it differently and saw it

413
00:19:03,214 --> 00:19:05,905
differently and wanted to see things done differently and.

414
00:19:06,250 --> 00:19:10,169
I've always had this idea at, because we're at the higher end of

415
00:19:10,169 --> 00:19:15,320
the market of what we do from a delivery and a cost and, and how

416
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,690
we deliver and what we deliver the brand needs to speak to that.

417
00:19:18,779 --> 00:19:21,370
And we all know that from all the brands we love.

418
00:19:21,595 --> 00:19:26,655
There's a brand that you spend 1, 000 on and a brand you spend 100 on.

419
00:19:26,655 --> 00:19:29,064
And the way that they present themselves, the

420
00:19:29,064 --> 00:19:31,105
1, 000 brand versus 100, they're very different.

421
00:19:31,235 --> 00:19:32,605
You know, they just, they just are.

422
00:19:32,704 --> 00:19:34,095
Walmart and Target, right?

423
00:19:35,715 --> 00:19:38,054
Nothing wrong with Walmart, nothing wrong with Target.

424
00:19:38,064 --> 00:19:40,294
But like, it feels different when you walk

425
00:19:40,294 --> 00:19:42,395
into Target than when you walk into Walmart.

426
00:19:42,695 --> 00:19:44,375
And it's a bit more expensive, right?

427
00:19:44,375 --> 00:19:47,845
And so kind of that thought process, I think, uh, it's tough.

428
00:19:47,885 --> 00:19:50,405
I mean, it's tough to, to change a culture.

429
00:19:50,620 --> 00:19:54,490
And to move a ship that's moving this way and move it this way,

430
00:19:54,740 --> 00:19:58,500
um, and most people, a lot of people won't make it, you know,

431
00:19:58,500 --> 00:20:01,109
and, and that was a hard thing, but we also had to upskill.

432
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,099
And, I mean, we, we needed a different type of, of

433
00:20:04,099 --> 00:20:06,700
employee to deliver the services that we wanted.

434
00:20:06,979 --> 00:20:08,699
And we had, I mean, there were fine people

435
00:20:08,699 --> 00:20:10,250
that were there when I got there as well.

436
00:20:10,310 --> 00:20:11,610
It just need to look different, act

437
00:20:11,610 --> 00:20:13,950
different, be different, even from the office.

438
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,600
And I mean, we painted the interior of the office and.

439
00:20:16,820 --> 00:20:19,400
Kind of tried to make it fit the brand that we were, and

440
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,440
eventually moved because that office didn't fit the brand.

441
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,130
And I think that's a big part of it.

442
00:20:24,130 --> 00:20:26,410
Like all that stuff to me matters a lot.

443
00:20:26,479 --> 00:20:28,099
Is that what led you to Emory Place that

444
00:20:28,099 --> 00:20:29,910
move or was there another one in between?

445
00:20:29,910 --> 00:20:33,509
Yeah, we actually, when we bought the other three letter company, RTL,

446
00:20:34,020 --> 00:20:39,680
they, uh, they had an office over on, uh, like across from, uh, US Cellular.

447
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:40,130
Chris: Yeah.

448
00:20:40,425 --> 00:20:40,885
Yeah, it is.

449
00:20:41,094 --> 00:20:43,354
Paul: It was kind of in a, in a, one of those, like,

450
00:20:43,455 --> 00:20:46,574
not a strip mall, but like a strip office park.

451
00:20:46,704 --> 00:20:47,164
Right.

452
00:20:47,274 --> 00:20:47,384
Yeah.

453
00:20:47,394 --> 00:20:49,944
And, uh, but it was very, it was more modern.

454
00:20:49,944 --> 00:20:54,404
And, um, and again, we went in and we painted the place and the guy already

455
00:20:54,404 --> 00:20:58,894
had done a good job of like, he had glass, like a glass conference room.

456
00:20:58,894 --> 00:21:00,234
And so I had some cool stuff.

457
00:21:00,235 --> 00:21:02,344
So we just had to sort of gussied up a little

458
00:21:02,344 --> 00:21:04,344
bit, make it look cooler, put our colors and.

459
00:21:04,610 --> 00:21:07,029
And logos on the walls and stuff like that.

460
00:21:07,029 --> 00:21:08,989
But, um, but that was actually a big deal.

461
00:21:09,049 --> 00:21:10,809
I mean, that felt really good.

462
00:21:10,809 --> 00:21:12,259
Like it felt good for everybody.

463
00:21:12,259 --> 00:21:13,259
It was a new spot.

464
00:21:13,259 --> 00:21:14,089
It was cooler.

465
00:21:14,615 --> 00:21:15,125
One more hip.

466
00:21:15,205 --> 00:21:17,334
Um, but yeah, I mean, eventually to Emory Place.

467
00:21:17,334 --> 00:21:17,635
Yes.

468
00:21:17,645 --> 00:21:21,185
When we were seeking out a spot, I really felt like my, um,

469
00:21:21,274 --> 00:21:24,685
kind of thought process then was like, I really wanted to, I

470
00:21:24,685 --> 00:21:28,204
love Brooklyn, New York, and I was like looking for something

471
00:21:28,205 --> 00:21:31,405
that reminded me of Brooklyn, you know, like warehouse see kind

472
00:21:31,405 --> 00:21:36,375
of thing and high ceilings and old floors and stuff like that.

473
00:21:36,375 --> 00:21:38,834
And I felt like that kind of, I felt like it felt,

474
00:21:38,865 --> 00:21:41,495
it did fit our brand because it was like kind of.

475
00:21:41,745 --> 00:21:46,314
Cool and hip, but old, but classy, you know, and repurposed.

476
00:21:46,324 --> 00:21:47,904
And there was a lot of things about it.

477
00:21:47,914 --> 00:21:49,914
So I would say, and that was from a branding perspective,

478
00:21:49,924 --> 00:21:51,934
that was always my thought is I wanted to be.

479
00:21:52,239 --> 00:21:56,100
I never wanted to be fun and playful, but I wanted to be like this

480
00:21:56,249 --> 00:22:00,209
kind of edgy, but elegant at the same time, you know, so a little

481
00:22:00,219 --> 00:22:03,859
bit like edgy because it's tech, but very elegant because it's

482
00:22:03,879 --> 00:22:07,139
professional, you know, that was the, the, the brand image that I

483
00:22:07,139 --> 00:22:10,840
always had in my mind whenever we were doing the, the first rebrand.

484
00:22:11,019 --> 00:22:13,449
Chris: Yeah, you don't want people to walk in and see a bunch of dusty old

485
00:22:13,449 --> 00:22:15,093
computers in the front office, you know, and a receptionist sitting there.

486
00:22:15,093 --> 00:22:18,343
You want it to be, you want people to

487
00:22:18,423 --> 00:22:20,093
perceive it as “We’ve got this under control.

488
00:22:20,093 --> 00:22:20,513
You’re taken care of.”

489
00:22:20,513 --> 00:22:21,453
Paul: Exactly.

490
00:22:21,453 --> 00:22:21,873
Exactly.

491
00:22:22,783 --> 00:22:23,933
Chris: That’s really cool.

492
00:22:24,163 --> 00:22:25,133
Paul: Yeah and I, it’s funny.

493
00:22:25,133 --> 00:22:31,070
I’ve heard, like, a lot of people, I was actually at a new customer

494
00:22:31,070 --> 00:22:33,280
who works, used to work for a competitor, and so we were, they were

495
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,480
interviewing us, we were talking, and when I found that out, I was like,

496
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,490
oh, uh, that's funny, like, I don't get to talk to many people that

497
00:22:38,490 --> 00:22:42,349
worked for competitors, like, what was your image of us in the market?

498
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:45,030
And he basically said all the things that I was

499
00:22:45,030 --> 00:22:48,189
hoping he would say, very professional, high end.

500
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:49,720
Top of the Market.

501
00:22:50,010 --> 00:22:51,580
And I've always wanted to come to your office, Cause

502
00:22:51,580 --> 00:22:54,020
I always heard it was just this really cool office.

503
00:22:54,050 --> 00:22:55,980
I was like, that's super funny.

504
00:22:57,500 --> 00:22:59,969
And he's like, and it is like he was there and the office, like it really is.

505
00:22:59,969 --> 00:23:00,909
It's everything everybody said.

506
00:23:00,909 --> 00:23:02,179
It was that's funny.

507
00:23:02,379 --> 00:23:03,080
Chris: That's really cool.

508
00:23:03,610 --> 00:23:08,010
I mean, it all plays into the brand and how people perceive you as a business.

509
00:23:08,050 --> 00:23:08,419
Right.

510
00:23:08,449 --> 00:23:10,510
So yeah, yeah, to that point.

511
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:11,220
So like you've.

512
00:23:11,540 --> 00:23:16,199
Rebranded, you're the IT company as you have in, especially in the early days

513
00:23:16,199 --> 00:23:18,959
when you were making those shifts, maybe you had some transition going on.

514
00:23:19,389 --> 00:23:22,539
All those challenges, like it's got to be nerve wracking, right?

515
00:23:22,539 --> 00:23:25,559
You're saying we're, we're planting our flag in the ground.

516
00:23:25,559 --> 00:23:29,039
This is where we're going to be going and you have to get some

517
00:23:29,049 --> 00:23:32,599
validation that the business is actually moving the way you want it to.

518
00:23:32,609 --> 00:23:34,679
What was that moment for you where you just

519
00:23:34,679 --> 00:23:37,774
realized, yes, My business is moving forward.

520
00:23:37,774 --> 00:23:39,824
This is the way we wanted it to go.

521
00:23:40,004 --> 00:23:42,384
And we're seeing proof positive that, um, that

522
00:23:42,384 --> 00:23:44,134
things are going the way we wanted them to.

523
00:23:44,304 --> 00:23:47,024
Paul: It was quite a while, you know?

524
00:23:47,054 --> 00:23:51,344
Uh, and some of that's just like, you know, I was as much as I

525
00:23:51,344 --> 00:23:56,094
had a lot of experience, uh, 11 years at, at building Claris to.

526
00:23:56,114 --> 00:23:59,954
A $7 million company at that time When I left, I did, I

527
00:23:59,954 --> 00:24:02,714
still didn't really know what I was doing, quite frankly.

528
00:24:02,774 --> 00:24:07,334
You know, I mean, I, I, uh, I made a lot of mistakes and, and I saw

529
00:24:07,334 --> 00:24:12,284
things, you know, I just, I always probably over-focused on the future,

530
00:24:12,524 --> 00:24:16,304
you know, and, and really wasn't as much present in the here and now

531
00:24:16,304 --> 00:24:19,904
as I needed to be to, to really be practical about getting things done.

532
00:24:20,114 --> 00:24:20,834
So it was a while.

533
00:24:20,834 --> 00:24:22,844
I mean, and, and we made a lot of missteps.

534
00:24:22,844 --> 00:24:23,294
I mean.

535
00:24:23,509 --> 00:24:28,769
The acquisition of RTL, I wouldn't say was a mistake, but gosh, that was hard.

536
00:24:28,819 --> 00:24:30,739
You know, and we actually had bought Digital

537
00:24:30,739 --> 00:24:35,959
Crossing in, uh, I think 2012 and RTL in 2013.

538
00:24:36,999 --> 00:24:39,469
So like consecutive back to back years, we were doing

539
00:24:39,469 --> 00:24:42,909
acquisitions and integrating these things in and then it

540
00:24:42,909 --> 00:24:45,539
was super, super hard, you know, to do all those things.

541
00:24:45,794 --> 00:24:48,584
And so I think it was, uh, it was a while.

542
00:24:48,584 --> 00:24:52,464
I mean, we, there's probably 2, 2 or 3 moments I could think of.

543
00:24:52,464 --> 00:24:52,994
I mean, we bought RTL.

544
00:24:53,744 --> 00:24:55,014
We went from a 1.

545
00:24:55,014 --> 00:25:00,314
2 million company to almost a, I think, between the 2 of us, maybe 2.

546
00:25:00,584 --> 00:25:01,084
2.

547
00:25:01,474 --> 00:25:02,514
5 million.

548
00:25:02,514 --> 00:25:03,994
So we kind of instantly doubled.

549
00:25:04,144 --> 00:25:06,214
And so we had some.

550
00:25:06,449 --> 00:25:10,549
Kind of breadth and flow at that point where and we made some transitions

551
00:25:10,549 --> 00:25:14,199
in kind of how because of our size at that point, we felt like we could do

552
00:25:14,229 --> 00:25:16,939
things slightly different than because when you walk in, you're like, hey,

553
00:25:16,939 --> 00:25:20,509
we're, we're 6 people, you know, but when you walk in and say, we're 12 or

554
00:25:20,509 --> 00:25:23,909
15 people, it's just different, you know, it sounds differently to somebody.

555
00:25:23,949 --> 00:25:26,639
So we felt like we could go after a different client at that point.

556
00:25:26,649 --> 00:25:30,269
And we started to do some things and we had a couple of people come over.

557
00:25:30,269 --> 00:25:30,319
Yeah.

558
00:25:30,509 --> 00:25:33,469
And work for us that we weren't able to attract before.

559
00:25:33,469 --> 00:25:36,099
So that's probably moment number 1, where it was like, we're, we're

560
00:25:36,099 --> 00:25:39,789
making progress, you know, where we're getting some big accounts.

561
00:25:39,979 --> 00:25:42,109
We're kind of being able to deliver at a level

562
00:25:42,109 --> 00:25:43,819
that I'd hoped we'd been able to deliver.

563
00:25:44,009 --> 00:25:44,859
So that was 1.

564
00:25:45,209 --> 00:25:49,209
I think the 2nd 1 was probably, honestly, it's probably

565
00:25:49,349 --> 00:25:54,259
between 2019 and 21, like that whole 19, then 20 COVID

566
00:25:54,279 --> 00:25:57,339
and then 21 post COVID kind of coming out of that.

567
00:25:57,769 --> 00:26:00,039
I think those years proved a lot.

568
00:26:00,259 --> 00:26:04,629
that we were really good at what we did and that because people were needing

569
00:26:04,629 --> 00:26:09,369
technology a lot more and we had actually done a lot of things ahead of that not

570
00:26:09,369 --> 00:26:12,389
knowing that there was going to be a pandemic where most of our customers were

571
00:26:12,389 --> 00:26:16,409
already prepared to work from home and stuff and so I think a lot of that stuff

572
00:26:16,599 --> 00:26:20,839
helped us validate that we were on the right track and doing the right thing.

573
00:26:20,959 --> 00:26:24,989
Then I would say probably in the past 22 and 23.

574
00:26:25,139 --> 00:26:28,619
You know, these are more internal things, but when I really, I saw

575
00:26:28,619 --> 00:26:31,709
like a team really coming together from a leadership perspective

576
00:26:31,714 --> 00:26:35,249
and buying into all the things we were doing and realizing that this

577
00:26:35,249 --> 00:26:38,399
company could operate, uh, from an operational perspective without me,

578
00:26:38,579 --> 00:26:42,299
you know, those were big, big moments for me where, um, I knew like

579
00:26:42,419 --> 00:26:46,259
we've, we've built a business that can last and do what it needs to do.

580
00:26:46,259 --> 00:26:48,539
And, and I don't have to be here every day.

581
00:26:48,539 --> 00:26:50,039
And not that I don't want to be here every

582
00:26:50,044 --> 00:26:51,779
day, but I don't have to be here every day.

583
00:26:52,264 --> 00:26:54,544
The company can continue on without me.

584
00:26:54,544 --> 00:26:56,434
So those are probably big, big moments.

585
00:26:56,534 --> 00:26:56,764
Chris: Yeah.

586
00:26:56,844 --> 00:26:59,414
That last one always feels like it's the biggest achievement.

587
00:26:59,434 --> 00:27:02,024
Once you've, once you've been able to be like, all right, I'm gone for

588
00:27:02,034 --> 00:27:04,874
vacation for a week and you come back and nothing's on fire when you get back.

589
00:27:04,874 --> 00:27:05,234
Yeah.

590
00:27:05,414 --> 00:27:05,864
Paul: Oh yeah.

591
00:27:06,284 --> 00:27:07,464
Chris: Those are, I mean, those are all really

592
00:27:07,464 --> 00:27:09,384
good signs of validation for any business.

593
00:27:09,594 --> 00:27:09,974
Paul: Yeah.

594
00:27:10,074 --> 00:27:12,224
Chris: That's really good to hear that you've had had that.

595
00:27:12,224 --> 00:27:15,894
I was, I was curious how things have changed post pandemic, because

596
00:27:15,894 --> 00:27:18,894
I'm sure a lot of the organizations that you used to support.

597
00:27:19,139 --> 00:27:20,919
I don't know, maybe it's not changed as much for you all as I

598
00:27:20,919 --> 00:27:23,249
would think, because most of the organizations I assume you all

599
00:27:23,249 --> 00:27:27,919
support have physical offices or have, you know, bigger number of

600
00:27:27,919 --> 00:27:31,059
desktops that you service or however you put that in your company.

601
00:27:31,059 --> 00:27:31,909
But yeah, I

602
00:27:32,539 --> 00:27:34,399
Paul: think the demand is definitely higher.

603
00:27:34,439 --> 00:27:37,749
I mean, I think people, although I think in this current year,

604
00:27:37,749 --> 00:27:40,569
it seems like things are a little softer as people think people

605
00:27:40,569 --> 00:27:43,179
are trying to figure out what the election is going to do.

606
00:27:44,314 --> 00:27:47,684
Kind of, uh, inflationary pricing has got people a little spooked more

607
00:27:47,684 --> 00:27:51,704
than, more than in the past, but I think COVID just proved to people that

608
00:27:51,734 --> 00:27:55,104
technology is at the center of your life and the center of your business.

609
00:27:55,294 --> 00:27:57,434
Um, and there's a demand for it again.

610
00:27:57,434 --> 00:27:58,154
We were fortunate.

611
00:27:58,164 --> 00:27:58,904
We had already.

612
00:27:59,019 --> 00:28:02,289
You know, largely put people in, you know, voice over IP phone

613
00:28:02,289 --> 00:28:06,279
systems, and we were already using Teams heavily as a company

614
00:28:06,279 --> 00:28:09,069
at the time, and it started to help customers move to Teams.

615
00:28:09,079 --> 00:28:13,089
So we had already, I think, pre prepared a lot of people, and it wasn't

616
00:28:13,089 --> 00:28:16,259
as big of a shift, although there were a few that was a big shift,

617
00:28:16,409 --> 00:28:19,589
especially those that deal with, like, large files, like people that

618
00:28:19,589 --> 00:28:23,299
are in media or people that are in architecture engineering, right?

619
00:28:23,299 --> 00:28:26,639
Those folks who Had to really learn that, you know, how do I

620
00:28:26,639 --> 00:28:29,349
deal with large files when I'm not in the office, et cetera.

621
00:28:29,409 --> 00:28:33,069
So that was a bit more, but I think I wouldn't say things are different.

622
00:28:33,069 --> 00:28:34,929
I mean, we've basically, the business is

623
00:28:34,929 --> 00:28:37,889
basically almost doubled, you know, since COVID.

624
00:28:38,069 --> 00:28:41,159
And so as a company, we were already on that kind of track.

625
00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:44,589
So I think from the perspective of just, you know, people just

626
00:28:44,629 --> 00:28:48,209
recognize that technology is critical at the center of their business

627
00:28:48,209 --> 00:28:50,889
and they need somebody that can manage it really, really well.

628
00:28:50,889 --> 00:28:53,869
And as a professional and, you know, We'll be there when they need them

629
00:28:53,869 --> 00:28:57,249
and we'll solve problems fast and give them good advice, et cetera.

630
00:28:57,379 --> 00:28:59,379
I do think, you know, there is a big shift.

631
00:28:59,609 --> 00:29:03,099
Obviously, you know, AI buzzword out there, generative AI,

632
00:29:03,099 --> 00:29:05,549
large language models, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know,

633
00:29:05,549 --> 00:29:08,419
I think that and I do think it's going to be a big shift.

634
00:29:08,614 --> 00:29:09,434
You know, shift.

635
00:29:09,434 --> 00:29:14,304
I think we are definitely in a, in another, uh, revolution and I think that

636
00:29:14,304 --> 00:29:19,374
that's as we learn how to harness those technologies and make them work with us.

637
00:29:19,474 --> 00:29:21,524
I think a lot of people think they're going to replace us.

638
00:29:21,524 --> 00:29:23,684
I think that the key to that is how do they,

639
00:29:23,714 --> 00:29:26,604
how do they aid us, assist us, make us better.

640
00:29:26,784 --> 00:29:30,414
I think that we're going to see another big shift and companies like us will be

641
00:29:30,414 --> 00:29:34,394
even more in demand that can pivot and help people be efficient and productive.

642
00:29:34,649 --> 00:29:37,389
Um, and again, I think that goes, our brand goes back to speak to

643
00:29:37,389 --> 00:29:40,929
that, like professional, you know, that people want somebody who's

644
00:29:40,929 --> 00:29:45,519
buttoned up and understands their business and can help them navigate

645
00:29:45,589 --> 00:29:49,049
these uncharted waters and make sense of all this technology.

646
00:29:49,199 --> 00:29:51,769
Um, and so again, I think branding is a big piece of that.

647
00:29:52,409 --> 00:29:53,469
Chris: Yeah, definitely.

648
00:29:53,479 --> 00:29:55,769
You definitely could see how your business has grown

649
00:29:55,769 --> 00:29:57,219
to the more I'm sitting here thinking about it.

650
00:29:57,239 --> 00:30:01,609
I remember when lockdown happened, having had spent so many years in telecom.

651
00:30:01,609 --> 00:30:04,574
Um, Pitching companies on, Oh, you need Office 365,

652
00:30:04,574 --> 00:30:06,344
or Oh, you need these things to work from home.

653
00:30:06,344 --> 00:30:09,874
And it just felt like when it happened, when it finally happened,

654
00:30:09,874 --> 00:30:12,284
it's like, this is what we were taught to do all these years.

655
00:30:12,684 --> 00:30:14,954
And now we have a situation where everybody's just magically

656
00:30:14,954 --> 00:30:18,044
forced into this situation where you have to rely on remote work.

657
00:30:18,334 --> 00:30:21,544
And it was a, Sad how unprepared people were.

658
00:30:21,554 --> 00:30:23,744
So I'm sure you've probably benefited from

659
00:30:24,034 --> 00:30:25,734
people, business owners, realizing that.

660
00:30:26,424 --> 00:30:26,904
Paul: Yeah.

661
00:30:26,914 --> 00:30:29,584
It's so crazy to, to think about that time as you're speaking, I was

662
00:30:29,584 --> 00:30:32,764
thinking, gosh, all the, you know, all the time just working from home.

663
00:30:32,764 --> 00:30:35,754
And I mean, we were doing leadership meetings in my basement.

664
00:30:35,919 --> 00:30:39,109
You know, and, uh, you know, for, you know, for a while, they were,

665
00:30:39,179 --> 00:30:41,469
you know, we were doing them with in teams, but after a while, I

666
00:30:41,469 --> 00:30:43,759
was like, if you guys are comfortable, I'm comfortable, all of us,

667
00:30:43,809 --> 00:30:46,599
you know, being together and not spitting, spitting on each other.

668
00:30:48,459 --> 00:30:50,769
So, uh, you know, but it's just crazy to think

669
00:30:50,769 --> 00:30:53,279
about, like, the leverage that got gained.

670
00:30:53,449 --> 00:30:55,914
I think people learned to be very efficient.

671
00:30:56,084 --> 00:30:58,724
But also learn to, to take a step back and,

672
00:30:58,824 --> 00:31:00,524
and, uh, you know, enjoy their families.

673
00:31:00,534 --> 00:31:05,054
Although I don't know, I mean, this is a, I guess a slight pontification,

674
00:31:05,064 --> 00:31:09,524
but I don't know to what, to what extent it's really changed.

675
00:31:09,664 --> 00:31:11,764
You know, I mean, I would say largely most of my

676
00:31:11,764 --> 00:31:14,104
customers are just back at what they were doing before.

677
00:31:14,214 --> 00:31:16,184
You know, I don't, I don't really see, I

678
00:31:16,184 --> 00:31:18,794
think everybody has got some type of hybrid.

679
00:31:18,989 --> 00:31:22,359
Policy in place, you know, where they're, where they're allowing people

680
00:31:22,359 --> 00:31:25,659
a little bit more flexibility and freedom, but I don't have any customers

681
00:31:25,659 --> 00:31:29,469
that have just said, burn the ships, no more office, everybody go home.

682
00:31:29,619 --> 00:31:31,909
You know, you know, I think there's a, and

683
00:31:31,909 --> 00:31:33,429
I've actually done a lot of research too.

684
00:31:33,429 --> 00:31:37,009
I mean, the younger generations, my daughters are part of that.

685
00:31:37,009 --> 00:31:40,289
My son, I mean, they, they love the freedom of remote

686
00:31:40,289 --> 00:31:44,229
work, but they also long for the connectivity of teams and.

687
00:31:44,230 --> 00:31:44,444
Yeah.

688
00:31:44,584 --> 00:31:47,314
And relationships and being in proximity to each other.

689
00:31:47,314 --> 00:31:50,154
So it's going to be a really fascinating thing to see, um, which

690
00:31:50,154 --> 00:31:53,714
again, I, I think all this stuff goes back to, to good branding

691
00:31:53,714 --> 00:31:57,574
and good marketing and communication is how do we communicate this?

692
00:31:57,784 --> 00:32:00,524
Because part of brand building, too, is attracting talent, right?

693
00:32:00,524 --> 00:32:03,664
I mean, we haven't talked about that, but I mean, you know, part of brand

694
00:32:03,664 --> 00:32:07,074
building is, is, uh, creating a place where people want to come to work.

695
00:32:07,574 --> 00:32:09,714
People love to come to work and people want to stay

696
00:32:09,714 --> 00:32:12,954
working there in a world where there's so much flexibility.

697
00:32:13,144 --> 00:32:14,964
You know, we have a really high retention, right?

698
00:32:14,964 --> 00:32:19,024
I have, I think, 6 or 7 people that have been here for over 10 years.

699
00:32:19,734 --> 00:32:22,404
So, a 3rd of our companies, almost a 3rd, maybe a

700
00:32:22,404 --> 00:32:24,484
quarter of our company has been here for over 10 years.

701
00:32:24,829 --> 00:32:25,629
Maybe more than that.

702
00:32:25,829 --> 00:32:27,239
One individual's been here 13.

703
00:32:27,249 --> 00:32:29,139
He's six months after I came here.

704
00:32:29,159 --> 00:32:31,969
And so there's a lot of brand building and attracting,

705
00:32:31,979 --> 00:32:34,349
but not just attracting, but retaining talent, you know,

706
00:32:34,369 --> 00:32:36,439
because people want to be proud of the place they work.

707
00:32:36,449 --> 00:32:37,839
They want to be proud of the work it does.

708
00:32:37,839 --> 00:32:40,099
They want to be, I mean, let's talk about the

709
00:32:40,099 --> 00:32:42,119
best branded company in Knoxville right now.

710
00:32:42,139 --> 00:32:43,449
Who do you think that is?

711
00:32:43,629 --> 00:32:44,319
Chris: Oh man.

712
00:32:44,329 --> 00:32:46,059
Best branding company in Knoxville.

713
00:32:46,059 --> 00:32:46,259
Best

714
00:32:46,289 --> 00:32:47,549
Paul: branded company in

715
00:32:47,699 --> 00:32:48,009
Chris: Knoxville.

716
00:32:48,010 --> 00:32:48,989
Best branded company.

717
00:32:49,259 --> 00:32:54,719
Oh man, um, I mean my, my gut on that, um, probably not going to

718
00:32:54,719 --> 00:32:57,349
be the one you're going to talk about, but I, I really think that,

719
00:32:57,349 --> 00:33:00,679
um, Zach Roskopp over at Knox Brew Tours, the way he's done Knox

720
00:33:00,679 --> 00:33:04,529
Brew Tours, the brew hub, he's kind of combined all that together.

721
00:33:04,529 --> 00:33:07,589
There's a lot of like, he, he, he's really intentionally thought

722
00:33:07,589 --> 00:33:09,689
through the thematic this, and I'm not just saying that cause he's

723
00:33:09,689 --> 00:33:12,999
been a guest on our podcast, but I think he does a really good job

724
00:33:12,999 --> 00:33:16,319
keeping branding and thinking about that when he builds a new operation.

725
00:33:16,559 --> 00:33:17,479
I think it's Axel.

726
00:33:17,799 --> 00:33:20,349
Paul: You know, I could be biased because they're around the corner

727
00:33:20,349 --> 00:33:23,909
from me, but dear Lord, like there, there are billboards everywhere.

728
00:33:23,929 --> 00:33:25,579
Build your, you know, build your empire.

729
00:33:25,589 --> 00:33:27,929
Like everybody that works there wears their shirts.

730
00:33:27,949 --> 00:33:30,459
Like, if you go to, go to Balter or go to any of these

731
00:33:30,479 --> 00:33:33,089
places for lunch or whatever, there's actual people there.

732
00:33:33,089 --> 00:33:34,119
They've all got their shirt.

733
00:33:34,239 --> 00:33:35,879
There's a company store.

734
00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:37,339
They got a gym.

735
00:33:37,589 --> 00:33:40,619
Our marketing coordinator, Macy, who you know, she's like, I was, I was

736
00:33:40,669 --> 00:33:43,379
before she, she has a house now, but she goes, I was in my apartment and

737
00:33:43,379 --> 00:33:45,979
there was like apartment complex and this dude came out, he's wearing like a

738
00:33:45,979 --> 00:33:49,649
razor back, you know, workout shirt that said axle logistics on it and stuff.

739
00:33:49,649 --> 00:33:52,769
And so I think those guys are, which I don't know if you've had shown as a

740
00:33:52,769 --> 00:33:55,679
guest, but if you want to show them, I'd be, I'd be happy to arrange that with.

741
00:33:56,664 --> 00:33:57,144
Chris: That'd be great.

742
00:33:57,414 --> 00:33:58,724
Paul: But they've done a great job.

743
00:33:58,794 --> 00:34:02,594
I mean, they've done a fantastic job of branding themselves.

744
00:34:02,644 --> 00:34:05,864
And, uh, and the people that work there wear

745
00:34:05,864 --> 00:34:08,234
their swag, you know, and it's impressive.

746
00:34:08,284 --> 00:34:11,284
I think the job that they've done, and I think it's been, I

747
00:34:11,284 --> 00:34:13,364
would say Sean's probably gonna say a lot of the same stuff.

748
00:34:13,364 --> 00:34:16,884
Like it's about attracting and retaining talent and stuff like that.

749
00:34:16,894 --> 00:34:19,704
So, uh, so yeah, I mean, I think that it matters.

750
00:34:19,754 --> 00:34:22,204
Like your brand matters to the people that work there.

751
00:34:22,204 --> 00:34:23,794
They want to, they want to attach.

752
00:34:24,034 --> 00:34:24,664
Just something.

753
00:34:24,664 --> 00:34:26,314
And they want to, they wanna belong.

754
00:34:26,314 --> 00:34:28,114
They wanna believe they're part of something.

755
00:34:28,264 --> 00:34:30,394
And uh, and that brand is important.

756
00:34:30,574 --> 00:34:32,794
Chris: I think you bring up a very good point, which is

757
00:34:33,034 --> 00:34:35,494
I think if people really love a brand and they work for

758
00:34:35,499 --> 00:34:37,324
that brand, they're willing to wear the brand in public.

759
00:34:37,534 --> 00:34:37,924
Paul: Yeah.

760
00:34:38,044 --> 00:34:38,794
Chris: A hundred percent.

761
00:34:38,794 --> 00:34:40,354
That's just a lot about the business.

762
00:34:40,354 --> 00:34:41,284
So I would.

763
00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:42,739
Okay, I'll concur.

764
00:34:42,739 --> 00:34:46,549
I mean, I think, I think, I think that makes a lot of sense.

765
00:34:46,549 --> 00:34:49,309
I, you know, I'm going to stick with Zach, but I do think

766
00:34:49,309 --> 00:34:52,999
what you're saying, I do think what you're saying is like,

767
00:34:53,019 --> 00:34:55,439
it really makes a lot of sense for the people that are there.

768
00:34:55,439 --> 00:34:56,869
They're very passionate about it.

769
00:34:56,899 --> 00:34:57,319
Yeah.

770
00:34:57,509 --> 00:34:59,509
I think that that, That makes a lot of sense.

771
00:34:59,509 --> 00:35:02,249
I mean, if we're going early meta, I think UT would probably be the better.

772
00:35:02,319 --> 00:35:05,545
They're the higher level ones, but small businesses in town.

773
00:35:05,545 --> 00:35:08,269
I think, I think, yeah, that makes sense.

774
00:35:08,349 --> 00:35:08,799
I got you.

775
00:35:08,819 --> 00:35:11,089
Paul: Well, there's, I mean, obviously we have big ones like, you

776
00:35:11,089 --> 00:35:14,469
know, pilot, pilots everywhere, you know, these, some of these guys

777
00:35:14,499 --> 00:35:17,929
that, you know, are like that, but they have a longstanding brand.

778
00:35:17,929 --> 00:35:21,650
I mean, Axel's, Axel's relatively new on the scene, if you think about it.

779
00:35:21,650 --> 00:35:24,519
And, um, and there's others, others that are out there too, but

780
00:35:24,649 --> 00:35:25,349
Chris: I like it though.

781
00:35:25,580 --> 00:35:27,830
Paul: The thing I think about them again, is their people love to wear their

782
00:35:27,830 --> 00:35:31,069
gear and if you love to wear their gear, you, you must love the brand Yeah.

783
00:35:31,069 --> 00:35:32,059
And the place that you work.

784
00:35:32,059 --> 00:35:32,330
So,

785
00:35:33,660 --> 00:35:37,365
Chris: um, I need to start giving out more hats, . That's right, that's

786
00:35:37,370 --> 00:35:37,529
Paul: right.

787
00:35:37,535 --> 00:35:38,549
I mean, I, where's mine?

788
00:35:38,549 --> 00:35:42,389
I got my, my podcast, you know, we did this, we did this hat like, oh yeah.

789
00:35:42,389 --> 00:35:44,490
We need, we need to do a better job of that actually.

790
00:35:44,580 --> 00:35:46,109
You know, and, but it's important.

791
00:35:46,170 --> 00:35:46,229
Yeah.

792
00:35:46,229 --> 00:35:47,309
People, people care.

793
00:35:47,429 --> 00:35:47,639
Chris: Yeah.

794
00:35:48,325 --> 00:35:49,955
And when you've got a cool brand, why not wear it?

795
00:35:49,974 --> 00:35:52,154
One of our, one of our clients that does a podcast, they

796
00:35:52,154 --> 00:35:55,125
have quite a unique brand and people die for their swag.

797
00:35:55,165 --> 00:35:56,574
They go to events and that's all they do.

798
00:35:56,574 --> 00:35:57,314
They don't have a booth.

799
00:35:57,364 --> 00:35:59,045
They just carry swag with them and hand it out.

800
00:35:59,074 --> 00:35:59,754
That's smart.

801
00:36:00,384 --> 00:36:00,835
I love it.

802
00:36:00,864 --> 00:36:01,495
That's cool.

803
00:36:01,504 --> 00:36:02,184
Really sharp.

804
00:36:02,394 --> 00:36:03,174
That's a good idea.

805
00:36:03,404 --> 00:36:04,654
But yeah, that's a lot of fun.

806
00:36:04,654 --> 00:36:04,724
A

807
00:36:04,984 --> 00:36:06,694
Paul: backpack full of swag, throwing it around.

808
00:36:07,844 --> 00:36:08,224
Chris: Yeah.

809
00:36:08,224 --> 00:36:11,484
And they go to Amazon's reinvent conference every year.

810
00:36:11,484 --> 00:36:13,104
And so they'll go and they'll take.

811
00:36:13,359 --> 00:36:16,080
Poker chips and live discount codes on the back for

812
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,269
their swag so you can buy stuff from their store.

813
00:36:18,330 --> 00:36:18,460
That's

814
00:36:18,460 --> 00:36:19,050
Paul: smart.

815
00:36:19,210 --> 00:36:19,960
Yeah, it's pretty cool.

816
00:36:19,979 --> 00:36:20,580
I like that.

817
00:36:20,580 --> 00:36:21,569
Yeah, it is.

818
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:22,619
Chris: But um, that's cool.

819
00:36:22,819 --> 00:36:23,429
That's awesome.

820
00:36:23,899 --> 00:36:25,399
Paul, this is, this has been really great.

821
00:36:25,399 --> 00:36:28,049
We always wrap up with the same question and that is,

822
00:36:28,059 --> 00:36:30,329
you know, what brand do you admire the most right now?

823
00:36:30,329 --> 00:36:31,460
You've already mentioned Axel.

824
00:36:31,489 --> 00:36:36,330
Is there a, is there maybe a more national brand or is Axel the answer?

825
00:36:37,099 --> 00:36:39,950
Paul: Nah, I mean, I do admire what they've done a lot.

826
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:44,599
I, I'll go with A brand that I wear a lot, which is Peter Millar.

827
00:36:44,769 --> 00:36:45,099
Okay.

828
00:36:45,219 --> 00:36:46,219
Golf brand.

829
00:36:46,290 --> 00:36:49,019
For those that don't know, it was actually two guys.

830
00:36:49,029 --> 00:36:51,490
I think it's two guys out of the Tri Cities.

831
00:36:51,799 --> 00:36:52,009
Chris: Oh.

832
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:53,649
Paul: It came up with the Peter Millar brand.

833
00:36:53,649 --> 00:36:55,819
It's a very, very well known brand in golf.

834
00:36:56,009 --> 00:36:58,399
Most people who play golf or part of a country

835
00:36:58,420 --> 00:37:00,649
club or something know the Peter Millar brand.

836
00:37:00,830 --> 00:37:01,740
It's kind of that.

837
00:37:01,819 --> 00:37:05,189
A little bit of what I said, like it's like elegant, edgy, you know,

838
00:37:05,189 --> 00:37:09,309
so they do a good job of kind of providing a little bit of a fresher,

839
00:37:09,470 --> 00:37:13,999
uh, not a super stodgy look, but also not a, not overly crazy.

840
00:37:14,029 --> 00:37:15,509
I mean, there's some really crazy stuff out there

841
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:18,090
in golf with flowers and all that stuff is fine too.

842
00:37:18,260 --> 00:37:21,870
So they're a bit more of an elegant brand, um, with a bit of an edge to it.

843
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,100
And, uh, and I love, I mean, people that know me know I'm a sucker for it.

844
00:37:26,109 --> 00:37:29,059
Like, if I'm actually not wearing, I do have Peter Miller shoes on.

845
00:37:30,584 --> 00:37:34,944
A Peter Millar shirt and a Peter Millar pullover and Peter

846
00:37:34,944 --> 00:37:38,434
Millar shoes on, um, because I love, I love that brand.

847
00:37:38,434 --> 00:37:41,334
So that'd be the, that was the one that, that just came to mind.

848
00:37:41,334 --> 00:37:42,865
There's a lot of other ones out there.

849
00:37:42,865 --> 00:37:46,615
I mean, I think there's some really cool, like I, I'm a duck hunter, so there's

850
00:37:46,615 --> 00:37:50,104
a really cool brand out there called Duck Camp that I think has done a really

851
00:37:50,104 --> 00:37:53,934
good job of branding their stuff and Sheen, a company called Sheen that's

852
00:37:53,944 --> 00:37:58,184
done a good job and a company called Kui, that's done a good job of branding.

853
00:37:58,184 --> 00:38:01,955
So, I mean, I love brand stuff anyhow, so I could go on and on.

854
00:38:01,964 --> 00:38:04,004
I love motorcycles, so I love KTM.

855
00:38:04,005 --> 00:38:04,955
And she does.

856
00:38:05,024 --> 00:38:08,434
So I think, I think a lot of these guys are in, you know, are doing

857
00:38:08,434 --> 00:38:11,594
a really good job of everybody I think is up their branding game.

858
00:38:11,805 --> 00:38:15,484
I mean, I think it's such a, it's such a thing now that everybody's up to.

859
00:38:15,484 --> 00:38:17,144
And it's, it's pretty interesting too.

860
00:38:17,154 --> 00:38:19,514
Like if you're on Instagram or whatever, like.

861
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,010
And you get fed these ads like, you know, it's some pretty impressive

862
00:38:23,010 --> 00:38:26,500
small companies that have done a really good job of building a brand

863
00:38:27,050 --> 00:38:30,839
and grown into something big just by investing heavily in brand.

864
00:38:30,959 --> 00:38:31,899
You know, it's pretty cool.

865
00:38:32,029 --> 00:38:32,319
Chris: Yeah.

866
00:38:32,499 --> 00:38:33,199
Paul: Who's your favorite?

867
00:38:33,269 --> 00:38:33,830
I'm gonna ask you.

868
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:34,479
Who's yours?

869
00:38:34,659 --> 00:38:34,869
Yeah.

870
00:38:34,869 --> 00:38:35,740
My favorite,

871
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,399
Chris: um, listeners are going to get tired of

872
00:38:37,399 --> 00:38:41,140
hearing this, but, um, my favorite is Red Bull.

873
00:38:41,330 --> 00:38:42,019
Oh, okay.

874
00:38:42,029 --> 00:38:44,689
Still, I'm a big Red Bull racing fan.

875
00:38:44,944 --> 00:38:46,684
Paul: Yeah, on the F1 side,

876
00:38:46,844 --> 00:38:47,745
Chris: on the F1 side.

877
00:38:47,745 --> 00:38:48,085
Yeah.

878
00:38:48,085 --> 00:38:48,504
Okay.

879
00:38:48,644 --> 00:38:50,214
I mean, their marketing is brilliant.

880
00:38:50,295 --> 00:38:51,554
And I mean, that

881
00:38:51,554 --> 00:38:54,295
Paul: company was built purely by brand.

882
00:38:54,295 --> 00:38:57,984
I mean, that, that's a story of a brand.

883
00:38:58,184 --> 00:38:58,514
Chris: Yeah.

884
00:38:58,544 --> 00:38:58,825
Big time.

885
00:38:58,834 --> 00:39:03,004
And, and, and as they've gotten into more like extreme sports and racing teams

886
00:39:03,004 --> 00:39:06,415
and things like that, they've just, they always create really good content.

887
00:39:06,415 --> 00:39:09,104
So I really like, The visual elements of what they do.

888
00:39:09,115 --> 00:39:12,495
And I mean, just very personally, like on the F1 side, I

889
00:39:12,495 --> 00:39:15,455
followed Max Verstappen from his first year in Formula One,

890
00:39:15,455 --> 00:39:18,054
because I was tired of seeing Lewis Hamilton win all the time.

891
00:39:18,764 --> 00:39:21,955
And I just, I cheered him on until he's gotten to where he is today.

892
00:39:21,964 --> 00:39:26,904
And you know, my son and I have like Red Bull racing jerseys and everything.

893
00:39:27,264 --> 00:39:29,205
Although my son's gotten to the point now where he starts asking

894
00:39:29,205 --> 00:39:33,304
me, dad is, is, can, can, um, what did he ask me the other day?

895
00:39:33,464 --> 00:39:34,564
Can Max lose?

896
00:39:36,394 --> 00:39:36,915
Paul: He's so good.

897
00:39:36,915 --> 00:39:37,675
Can he lose a race, please?

898
00:39:37,995 --> 00:39:39,465
Well, nobody can drive his car either.

899
00:39:39,465 --> 00:39:40,535
That's the crazy thing about it.

900
00:39:40,604 --> 00:39:44,295
Like he's the only one that can drive that razor edge car that he's got.

901
00:39:44,304 --> 00:39:44,585
It's insane.

902
00:39:44,585 --> 00:39:45,264
It's insane.

903
00:39:45,264 --> 00:39:48,354
But yeah, it's an interesting guy too, so that's, that's, that's interesting.

904
00:39:48,835 --> 00:39:49,154
Chris: Yeah.

905
00:39:49,344 --> 00:39:49,584
Yeah.

906
00:39:49,634 --> 00:39:53,214
Now, Rebel's not in the best place, uh, maybe politically right

907
00:39:53,214 --> 00:39:55,644
now with everything going on, if you're following any of that.

908
00:39:55,675 --> 00:39:56,205
Sure.

909
00:39:56,295 --> 00:39:58,474
But other than that, like I really like them and, and really all

910
00:39:58,474 --> 00:40:01,505
of Formula One, like the teams know that it's about the brand.

911
00:40:01,675 --> 00:40:04,274
Like it's, you know, it's about attracting people to.

912
00:40:04,579 --> 00:40:06,950
The characters within their brand and those, those

913
00:40:06,959 --> 00:40:09,379
storylines that are being followed throughout every season.

914
00:40:09,379 --> 00:40:11,609
I think that really draw people in.

915
00:40:11,629 --> 00:40:15,179
Um, Mercedes has done a good job of playing, you know, over

916
00:40:15,179 --> 00:40:18,549
really sad about losing all the time now up and making it

917
00:40:18,740 --> 00:40:22,569
funny and, you know, having a sense of humor of things.

918
00:40:22,579 --> 00:40:25,769
So I really like, you know, like that industry a lot right now.

919
00:40:25,769 --> 00:40:27,159
So I'd say that's probably where I'm at.

920
00:40:28,089 --> 00:40:29,789
Paul: I listened to a podcast the other day

921
00:40:29,789 --> 00:40:30,729
and I thought it was really interesting.

922
00:40:30,729 --> 00:40:34,159
They were contrasting the election that when Obama won.

923
00:40:34,424 --> 00:40:37,394
The first time, and it was a brand conversation about

924
00:40:37,394 --> 00:40:39,414
like, they're basically like, do you remember who he

925
00:40:39,414 --> 00:40:43,224
ran against and what his, what the slogan was versus.

926
00:40:43,580 --> 00:40:46,910
Do you remember Obama's and most of everybody remembers Obama's

927
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,649
and it's largely why he won because he just had a simple brand and

928
00:40:50,649 --> 00:40:53,519
that with everybody attached to it, you know, it's pretty wild.

929
00:40:53,519 --> 00:40:56,169
You could even say the same thing for like him or hate

930
00:40:56,169 --> 00:40:57,939
him with, you know, the first time that Trump won.

931
00:40:57,969 --> 00:41:01,719
I mean, he was just, he stuck to one thing and make America great again.

932
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:03,519
And that was a simple brand, you know?

933
00:41:03,519 --> 00:41:04,990
And so it goes back to the same thing.

934
00:41:05,490 --> 00:41:08,410
These brand statements, they matter, you know, and the

935
00:41:08,410 --> 00:41:10,870
simplicity of them is what gets people's attention.

936
00:41:10,870 --> 00:41:12,529
So I appreciate you having me on here.

937
00:41:12,639 --> 00:41:13,839
Chris: Yeah, absolutely, Paul.

938
00:41:13,849 --> 00:41:14,439
It's been great.

939
00:41:14,459 --> 00:41:16,919
So where can people connect with you and

940
00:41:16,919 --> 00:41:18,789
where can people connect with the IT company?

941
00:41:18,979 --> 00:41:22,279
Paul: Yeah, I probably main place for me would be, would be not Instagram.

942
00:41:22,289 --> 00:41:23,169
Please don't connect with me.

943
00:41:23,169 --> 00:41:24,319
There'll be LinkedIn.

944
00:41:24,649 --> 00:41:24,999
Yes.

945
00:41:25,589 --> 00:41:27,709
Instagram is purely for me to watch reels.

946
00:41:29,529 --> 00:41:32,519
And laugh, get my humor out, uh, uh, LinkedIn.

947
00:41:32,569 --> 00:41:36,439
I saw I'm on LinkedIn, LinkedIn slash, whatever it is slash Paul Sponcia.

948
00:41:36,439 --> 00:41:38,109
I think it's like N slash Paul Sponcia.

949
00:41:38,410 --> 00:41:41,089
I'm on everything else too, but I don't, I'm not as active

950
00:41:41,089 --> 00:41:44,419
as I am on LinkedIn and then the IT company, LinkedIn.

951
00:41:44,419 --> 00:41:47,689
And then our website, which is currently www.

952
00:41:47,759 --> 00:41:48,330
theitco.

953
00:41:49,429 --> 00:41:52,049
net, but soon to be www.

954
00:41:52,129 --> 00:41:53,189
theitcompany.

955
00:41:53,189 --> 00:41:53,479
com.

956
00:41:53,639 --> 00:41:54,049
Chris: Excellent.

957
00:41:54,219 --> 00:41:54,589
Excellent.

958
00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:54,809
Cool.

959
00:41:55,319 --> 00:41:58,139
We'll make sure to include those links in the show notes for folks so

960
00:41:58,139 --> 00:42:01,849
they can connect with you and follow the IT company and check y'all out.

961
00:42:02,290 --> 00:42:03,010
Appreciate it, man.

962
00:42:03,109 --> 00:42:04,489
Speaker: Paul, thank you for your time.

963
00:42:04,689 --> 00:42:05,670
Yeah, thanks for having me.

964
00:42:05,899 --> 00:42:06,429
Absolutely.