Building Brands That Resonate & Transform with Victory Harbin

Chris Hill: Welcome to We Build This Brand. I'm your host as always, Chris Hill, and today we're talking to Victory Harbin from The Social Brand. The Social Brand was founded in 2018, and over the years, Victory has grown the business into an award winning agency. She's generated hundreds of happy customers, and she's currently thriving as a small business here in Knoxville, Tennessee.

Victory is also a public speaker. She's well versed in marketing, and she holds over 30 different certifications related to social media, SEO, marketing strategy, and even website development. I've known Victory for a while now, and as you can see, we think a lot alike on different topics. Our conversation covers everything from her humble beginnings, to how she scaled her business up and then down again, as well as business strategy, and of course, we talk about branding a little bit too.

So without further ado, here's my conversation with Victory Harbin from The Social Brand.

Victory, welcome to the podcast.

Victory Harbin: Yeah, thank you. I'm glad to be here.

Chris Hill: Yeah, it's great to have you here on We Built This Brand. So today we're going to talk about your business, The Social Brand, and how you got it started and everything that The Social Brand entails. So let's, let's dive into it. I'd love to hear a little bit more about where you come from and what led you to creating this business.

Victory Harbin: Yeah, so I have a very creative background, and I've always just loved creativity and finding ways to be creative. And actually, in college, I was an art degree. I was an art student, and then eventually got a degree in healthcare administration, and somehow marketing just kind of combined all the things into the perfect mix.

and allows me to use my creative background as well as like the strategic administrative kind of that I have. And a lot of fun.

Chris Hill: That's really cool. So coming out of school without this, wasn't your first job out of college, though?

Victory Harbin: No, no, I worked in doctors offices, and I did marketing for doctor's offices for a while, several years, and then I actually helped an ex partner start another business and it business.

And then we sold that business and I started the social brand in 2018.

Chris Hill: That's cool. So you've already been through the cycle of starting a business, building it, and then getting it to a point where it's viable to sell.

Victory Harbin: Yeah, I think that when I found entrepreneurship, I really found my calling in life because I was just like, this is it.

It doesn't matter what I'm doing. I love this. And now I'm in a position. With working with other entrepreneurs where I just get to live and breathe it all the time. So I love it.

Chris Hill: Yeah, it's a lot of fun getting to work and kind of run your own, manage your own destiny, run your own business and do that. So that's, that's really cool.

So what led you to starting the social brand though? Like, so you've, you've got, you've sold this business. Did you just say, I want to start a new business? Was there a need in the market that you saw? What was it?

Victory Harbin: Yeah, so in the first business, I wasn't Doing marketing for people. I was doing marketing for ourselves, right?

And that had always been the role that I had played. You know, I would work for a doctor's office and do their marketing, or I would do the marketing for whatever place I was at. And then, as I was doing that at my first business, I started having friends approach me and say, Hey, would you help me with this?

Would you help me with that? And then, actually, the Small Business Development Center, Here in Knoxville approached me and asked me to teach a class for how to use social media to grow your business and I picked up my first few clients in that class And I kind of was like, Oh, I'm now getting paid to do this for other people.

And within a month of that class, I had launched the social brand. It really happened organically. And I think that's the beautiful thing about it because I never have to question, you know, if this was meant to be or if I'm supposed to be doing this because it really found me and chose me.

Chris Hill: I find that's the best kind of validation in a business too when it just kind of grows organically because that's kind of how my business was really started was just people saying, Hey, I need some help.

And would you help me with this? And you're like, yeah, sure. I think that's, remembering back on some of our early conversations, I think that was kind of one of the things we connected over was just, Hey, we have similar businesses, kind of similar starts and all that. So that's, that's really neat that it kind of grew from that.

So when you're building a business, you're, you're talking about building a brand and you know, that brand image means a lot to the business. So why did you choose the name, The Social Brand?

Victory Harbin: I think that The Social Brand has evolved. And what it means to me, because initially it meant like social media, right?

And brands that were the brand that helps you be on social media. But we do a lot more than just social media now, and ultimately the social brand kind of stands for, you know, the brand that connects with people. And one of our core values at the social brand is human connection. It's in our mission statement, you know, that we exist to creatively promote human connection.

And so, I just really look at marketing as a way to creatively promote human connection. We exist to help our clients connect with their customers and we get to connect with our clients. My team gets to connect with each other. Like all these relationships exist because the social brand exists. That to me is just like a really profound thing.

Chris Hill: Yeah, there's a lot to unpack there. I mean, I think that that's what people are looking for in marketing today and in branding and in business really, like you're looking to deal with people like you. Can I trust these people? Do I know these people? Are they the ones that I want to talk to? And you know, can I trust them with my money to do the thing that I need them to do to help me promote my business?

So I think that that's a really cool way to evolve the meaning of the name and, you know, continue to. Make your brand relevant, so to speak. So, it's really neat.

Victory Harbin: And I think that, you know, I've had advisors tell me like, Oh, you've outgrown your name. You've, you should consider renaming. And, but it's just like, I don't think so.

I think that it's, you know, it's evolved with us. And social media is part of what we do. It's part of our history. But I think social means so much more than just Facebook and Instagram and TikTok.

Chris Hill: And that's, that's an interesting point, like having people pushing you to change the name and rebrand and all that.

I mean, it sounds like your messaging, though, is really where you're changing and updating the importance of what the name or the relevancy of what the brand name means. So that's a really cool approach.

Victory Harbin: Yeah, I think that I look at brands like Google and Coca Cola and Pepsi and Apple, Amazon, you know, those names don't mean anything except for because they chose to make it mean something.

So I really think that the name is important. It's kind of irrelevant, you know, it's like, what does Google mean? It's like a nonsensical word. I'm just saying like before Google made Googling a thing, it was just a sound and now it means so much. It's a verb and it's a whole way of life. So I don't know, I think that that's something that I talk to even my clients about is creating a brand.

That can become a verb, you know, Facebook. I'm going to Facebook that.

Chris Hill: I mean, that means a lot when your business gets to that place. I mean, that kind of dives into positioning and how your brand is positioned because when you're positioned at the top of your market, Like, your name is synonymous with the action.

And so, you know, you Google it. You might Xerox. Even today, some people still say, I'm going to go Xerox something. I mean, you don't hear it too often anymore. But, you know, for a long time growing up, I can remember people saying, Yeah, let's go Xerox that. And it was like, Oh, yeah, go run a copy. Like, that's all that meant back in the day.

And yeah, Googling it, same thing. Just, yeah, so that's, that's really neat. So, have you had any businesses that have gotten to the point where they're, they're becoming a verb?

Victory Harbin: Yeah. I think that I have businesses that have become verbs in their own way. And I think that's another, another really important thing is that I work with a lot of people who truly don't have goals around their brand.

Goal setting is another thing that I spend a ton of time talking to people about. I can nerd out about it all day long. And you have to decide, well, what do you want your brand to be synonymous with? And so, you know, I, I have one particular brand that I can think of and their ultimate goal is to be like a family.

And when you read their hundreds and hundreds of reviews, it's repeated over and over and over again. So I would say, yeah, they're verbing it, you know, like they're living it, they're living and breathing it. And they're hearing it back from their customers. It's all over their social, it's in all the feedback they get.

So, I would say that anytime you're living out your values like that, you're on your way to success.

Chris Hill: Yeah. Absolutely. When, when it's proven in the clients that you have, I think that's a good, that's a good way to put it. So, you do social media. What else does your business offer? Tell me a little bit more about the specifics of what the social brand does.

Victory Harbin: We do marketing and we, we say that we do strategy first marketing. So, everything. that we do in the social brand really comes down to having a really solid strategy in place. that's based on data and based on validating theories before we put dollars behind them. When it comes down to implementation, we're capable of doing most of the marketing implementation that your average service based small business has.

And when it's not something that we're super great at, We have a lot of partners that we can pull in. So we can, you know, do everything from branding and websites and SEO, Google ads. Right now we're building a web app. So there's, you know, just some crazy fun experiences that I've gotten to have. But those all come out of the strategy.

It's not just, I need social media. Well, some businesses don't need social media. And We really want to make sure that we validated that you're going to see the results that your business needs before you start investing in that. Just like podcasting. It's not right for every single business.

Chris Hill: Oh, no, no, no.

Listeners don't, don't hear that. It's for everybody. No, I'm kidding. You're, you're, you're, you're exactly right. You're, you're, you can edit that out. No, I'm, I'm, I'm with you though. Like you're, you're right. It's not for everybody and I don't purport to be for everybody. So I, yeah, I totally get what you're saying.

Victory Harbin: Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons why like you and I have connected so much over the time that we've known each other is because we both have a very clear understanding of who our client is and who it isn't. And so it's so easy to talk to your customer when you know who they are. But when you don't, and you're just like, swayed by any idea that comes to you, it's very difficult to get the results that you need.

So that's why we always start with strategy, because part of that strategy is defining who is your audience? Where are they? What do they need? What do they want from you? What's the experience they're looking for from your brand and how do we provide that?

Chris Hill: Do you have a certain methodology or approach that you follow when it comes to your strategy sessions?

And, you know, I'm always curious like what people draw from when they say, Hey, we're going to do strategy first.

Victory Harbin: We do just a three week kind of process. of getting to know brands, getting to know their goals, their audience. We also have that methodology on our website as a free mini course that people can take.

You know, we always make sure that people know, like, this is something that we can do for you, or this is something that you can do yourself. Regardless of who does the marketing plan, it's just important that we have one. And that we're not just randomly picking a list of services to start doing.

Chris Hill: Yeah, they don't come to you and order off a menu.

You start with the strategy and execute based on that.

Victory Harbin: And the strategy needs to be very well grounded in data and not just, because I see people saying, Oh, this is my strategy. And even their strategy is an opinion. It's not even an educated guess. It's just a guess. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, let's back up here and define what strategy actually is.

Chris Hill: I feel like this comes up almost every episode now, but I definitely have had the clients that like just want to go viral or want their content to just be the biggest thing out there. And I'm like, you may not need that. That may not be the best objective for you, but yeah, everybody has that. Or not everybody, but often you run into those folks that just like have no idea exactly what they want.

They just want success. They want something to. Be successful. And so they'll keep trying anything as long as they see it and it gets exciting. And if it's new and shiny, sometimes you see them chase that down and go do that instead. So that's definitely, definitely good to hear. You're starting with that strategy approach first.

Is there like an author or You know, framework or something. You mentioned a class, which we'll definitely make sure to link to in the show notes. Um, cause it's free on your website. So we'd love to have people check that out. But like, is there, is there an author or somebody, I'm just really curious. I'm, I'm a bit of a strategy nerd.

Victory Harbin: I think that Donald Miller. I'm reading another Donald Miller book right now. Donald Miller has so much to say about really knowing your customer. And I think the biggest takeaway that I've had from Donald Miller is that you don't need to be the hero of the story that your brand tells. Your customer needs to be the hero and you're the guide.

And just to go kind of back to something that you mentioned, like what does success look like? I think that's so important. That's the first step of defining what your goals are. You, as a business owner, have to know what success looks like. And success, Can't just be a dollar amount. Success truly is so much more than having a certain number of dollars in your bank account or making a certain amount every year or winning a certain award.

I was talking to like a really good friend of mine who is a business owner, and he's had this long time goal of winning a certain award. And recently, he's kind of come to the point where he's realizing like, maybe that's not where the world is taking him right now at this point in his journey. And so how does he find success?

even though that award doesn't look like it's in his near future. And you know what? He came to the point where he realized, no, success through my business is going to look like being present for my daughter and being a good husband and being present in my relationships and being able to afford to do X, Y, and Z and serving my clients in this way.

You know, when we know that success looks like that, Then our strategy can answer or solve for how to accomplish those things. And I think Donald Miller does a really good job of taking the ego out of being a business owner and remind you that like, you're the secondary character in these stories.

You're here solving their problems. And when you can totally, like, deeply grasp that and understand that, it's like, there's no ego in this. Like, we're working really, really hard to solve other people's problems, and we're blessed to do it. It's just this feeling of like, Gratitude versus like, I'm the most powerful, you know, I don't know, it's just, it was a real mindset shift for me.

Chris Hill: I mean, I've read some of Donna Miller's works, you know, I've read the, the story brand book as I think a lot of people have and, um, so I can speak to some of that. And yeah, I, I think, I think it is about making them, especially in service oriented businesses anyway, like, you know. Producing podcasts or helping with social media.

Like there's an element of that where it really isn't about me. It's like, how can we help you? And so having that, that human focus, if you will, and really focusing on person on that, you know, on that client and helping them first. Like I always think that's the better road to take when, when you're working on anything is serving the customer first.

So, you know, my dad always used to say the customer's not always right. But they're always served. And I think, you know, as we go, as we go through things, you know, that's, that's a good lesson that I've taken on my journey. It's just, you know, okay, well, you know, now I'm going to guide them and I'm going to consult them.

But at the end of the day, like I still have to serve them. And then, you know, if they think about that way for their clients, and if we can impart some of that on them, like I think over the long run, that's a good place to be.

Victory Harbin: And I think true success comes out of not pretending like you're the guide, but like actually believing that you're the guide.

And that comes from an authentic place. You find joy in playing that role. That's where success really comes is like, you love your job. It's rewarding. You love what you do. You spend your time doing things that fill your cup, you know?

Chris Hill: I think, especially for small business owners like us, like being an entrepreneur, like there's a bit of what I call founder magic.

in the business where you're just like, I'm the one who could do this better than anyone else because I'm the most passionate about it. I'm the one who realizes I'm the guide and all this stuff. And I'm not saying it in an arrogant way, but it is something that you realize over time of like, you've got the ability to Impact other people and the business in a way that others can't just because you know it inside and out.

You also have control over the business, which helps a lot. Um, so, you know, employees have to go, well, let me check with my boss a lot of times before they make decisions. And sometimes you could just fire from the hip, but in reality, like, I think that, yeah, that's a really cool part about owning the business in that regard, but yeah.

So from there, like, then as you grow the business, cause it's not just you anymore, how many people are at the social brand right now?

Victory Harbin: So we have seven full time employees right now. So

Chris Hill: that's really cool. So how do you, how have you approached scaling the business then? Because that's another place that you become very humble very quickly.

Victory Harbin: Oh, yeah. I scaled my business the total wrong way during COVID. Because everybody and their brother needed to get their business online. And I was like, it's now or never, baby, I'm doing this. And I got up to 22 employees. I was miserable. I was just like anxious and struggling personally and, and my employees were miserable, right?

They, it wasn't fun to work for me. I was not a good leader and I was not a good, a good boss. Like I just, I wasn't ready for it. I bit off more than I could chew. But what I've done is I've really slowed down and I control the pace now. Sometimes that means saying no to things, but I really want to say yes to because I can see the dollar signs.

Is it gonna help me accomplish success the way that I define success? And I've really defined success for me personally as having really strong relationships. And so I apply that to my clients, I apply that to my team, I apply that in my personal life. So saying yes to something threatens any of those three domains, then it's a hard no for me.

So if it means less time with my family, if it means that I'm not going to have a good relationship with this client because we have different views on things, they're not a good fit. If it means that it's going to put stress on my team or make them miss time with their families, again, it's a hard pass.

So I think the key to success for me when it comes to scaling is that there's a lot of no's. that have to be said. Slow and steady wins the race. There's a lot of businesses that scale really fast and get to thousands and thousands of employees and then have to do layoffs or declare bankruptcy or go out of business or whatever.

Like I don't want the fast growth. I want the sustainable growth. And I also want the growth that gives me the lifestyle that I need to be a healthy, happy person. And for me, sometimes that means having a lower income and a slower pace because I'm a single lady in the city. I don't need that much. It's me and my dog.

I live with my sisters. You know, my life is simple and I've designed it that way on purpose. Because I'm happiest that way. So I need a business that supports that. So a lot of people who are like deep in the trenches of growing a business struggle with that. And I think if I would hear myself talking two years ago, I'd be like, Oh, that's, I would probably have some really strong things to say about it.

You know what? It's about peace for me. As growth is sustainable and doesn't add stress to my life, I'll do it. So I think another Donald Miller quote here is that I'm right now I'm reading Business Made Simple by Donald Miller, which is a great book, by the way. It's set up where you read like a little piece of a chapter every day.

And his whole thing is that. A business is like an airplane, right? And so anytime you make a decision that's not propelling your business forward, then it's dragging it down. I've been just thinking about that a lot. Like, if it's not propelling your business forward, it's dragging it down. You can apply that idea to a lot of different kind of decisions that you get faced with as a business owner.

Chris Hill: Lots to unpack there. So, I think that being selective in the business is hard. I mean, I will admit, like, it's hard for me to say no to things. It's, if we have an opportunity to do it, we'll do it. In fact, I'll, I'll share one with you that was a huge mistake, um, because I don't think I'm under an NDA for this.

If we do, we'll cut it out later. Um, but we were hired, um, we were hired by a company right when my second daughter was born and some of this is like there's founder magic and then there's what I call parent or dad magic where, um, there's something about having a child that just propels you forward. In a weird way, it's like, I don't know if it's like chemical or biological or just like emotional, but something as a dad just makes me go, I need to provide for my family.

So I'm going to go out there and, um, I'm going to go and hire like, or I'm not hire. I'm going to go do whatever it needs to be done to make this business work. And right after the birth of my daughter, while I was on paternity leave. I got an opportunity to work a live stream project. So this is right, kind of early, like late, late COVID time.

So like 2021 or so, it was one of those opportunities to like really come in and do a cool live stream project. And it ended up being with the NFL.

Victory Harbin: That would be a hard one to say no to.

Chris Hill: Right? The pay was good. I'm sitting here looking at medical bills and family stuff and I'm just like, I, we need this.

Even though I should have said no, I, my gut was like, we need this. I can do it on my own. I've just got to pay one other guy to come in and help me with the production and, and we'll be able to handle it. You know, I've got a gig internet connection here. What's the worst that could happen? And the worst happened.

The day of the stream, the, the MC's feed crashed on us during the start of the stream. Uh, the screen went black. It defaulted to another camera. I didn't expect it. And I, I said some choice words because I was surprised and didn't realize I was on a hot mic. It was embarrassing. And it was like, oh gosh. Um, and then we got it all up.

It happened really quick. Nobody saw it. It was like at the very beginning of the stream. Like happened really quick and we got it subsequently done. But. You know, that didn't end up, you know, going the way I had hoped at all. And I, I learned the very, the very important lesson of like, you shouldn't take everything that comes along just because it's money.

Like there's some things you need to hand off. There's some things you should just say no to because you're not equipped to handle them. And we, the rest of the stream was fine. Nobody had any trouble the rest of the time. We got the production done. It was great. But man, that was such an embarrassing and powerful lesson because on top of that, I'm, I'm like layered with the shame of like, I took time away from family, you know, right after my daughter was born.

And I put a lot of effort into this happening and it took up more time than I anticipated, of course. And it ate up a lot of production time, ate up company time. And it was just, um, it was just a huge stressor. So I feel you when it comes to that, that decision making challenge of how do you scale and how do you grow appropriately, but.

Victory Harbin: Yeah. And stress is a denominator. that affects everything. Stress decreases your productivity, it decreases your joy, it decreases everything that we need to thrive. So stress is a huge factor, you know, it increases turnover with your team, like it, it's just everything bad that we don't want in our businesses comes when we introduce more stress.

And so that's a huge one to really pay attention to.

Chris Hill: I feel like I'm still learning that lesson.

Victory Harbin: I'm still learning that lesson. It's hard.

Chris Hill: You never know when like that next client is going to be the lever that just makes it so much more chaotic for the team and it's like, oh gosh, didn't expect this coming.

Yeah, that's, that's great. What have you learned about branding in building your own business? I mean, branding, of course, is the name of the podcast. You have social brand in your business name. Tell me, what have you learned about branding in all these years?

Victory Harbin: I think that it was Maybe a Seth Godin quote. I could be wrong on that.

But I think it's a Seth Godin quote that basically says, Brand is the perception of your business in your customer's mind. And when I first read that, I was writing a branding course. And I was like, Oh, that's stupid. Like I just, I didn't like it because I couldn't control it. And as a marketer, I'm like, Oh no, we have to, we have to control it, you know?

And that is it. Like I always come back to that for years now. I've come back to that. And branding really is. Just like that business I was talking about who treats their, you know, their customers like family. That is their brand. Their brand is how they treat people and the sum of their reviews and how people talk about them when they're not in the room.

So brand is so much more impactful than a logo. You can have a brand and never design a logo. You can have a brand and never have a website, which as a marketer, is like mind boggling. I'm like, you mean you don't need a style guide with typography and, you know, but you don't. Because brand is is like an intangible and you have to like come to peace with that, I think, to be good at marketing because like in marketing we're striving to control things that we really don't have control of.

We're trying, we're striving to affect how people perceive. And we're striving to affect their decision to buy or not buy. And it's really just all about, again, trying to control things that we ultimately don't have complete power over. In order to be good at marketing, you have to just like come to peace with the fact that you're not going to have control over everything.

And Just enjoy the ride.

Chris Hill: Yeah, that's one of the daunting things about it, isn't it? You know, you could, someone, someone could adversely affect your brand without your control or, you know, people may tell you what your brand is and you may not even know. I mean, that's probably part of the reason why you start with strategies.

You want to hear from the person's audience what they say about that brand to begin with. Because, yeah, they may have a different perception. Then you even perceive your own business and that could be a challenge. If you don't realize your customers think of you one way and you think of yourself another, it's, you know, just like it would be if your personal identity was one way and people were like, Oh, are they?

Oh, I always thought of them as this. It's like, Oh no, no, no, no. This is what they do. Oh, really? That means there's a misalignment there that has to be fixed, but that's what you're good for. And that's what social brand helps with. So what's top of mind in your industry right now?

Victory Harbin: I think AI is like the big shiny thing right now.

I think AI is the shiny thing in all industries right now. And AI is like the coolest thing ever. So I think that it's a beautiful tool that if used ethically, And honestly can empower us to be a lot more impactful. I think that AI is also dangerous because it empowers the lazy in us. And it makes it really easy to be like, I'm going to check out of my marketing and just use AI.

And Marketing is literally the engine driving your business forward. So being hands off on your marketing is a really dangerous place to put yourself in.

Chris Hill: I definitely, I mean, we see it in what we do. AI has been used in podcasting for ages through different software and things like that that manages production.

Editing tools and things like that. So in some ways, it's not new, but in other ways, like in the, in the sense we're talking about now, which is the generative AI. Yeah. There's a lot of push for people to just be like, well, why can't we just run it through AI? And okay, fine. But you're not going to get the same result.

Like you'd still need a human to look over it. You still need. Human to address that and you're right, like people will get lazy and just think that I can have a computer do it. We've even had that said about podcasting, you know, Oh, we'll just run it through an AI machine and it'll make our podcast perfect.

And I mean, there's a lot of cool tools out there that can speed up the process, make things a little easier, but there's still a lot of technical stuff to be done. It's still not to a place where you can just. dumped something in, and it comes out the other side magically complete. So, and with the marketing side, especially, I hear you.

Well, Victorie, as we wrap up, I just wanted to ask you just a couple less questions before we're done. And the one I always like to ask at the end of every interview is what brand do you admire the most right now?

Victory Harbin: My most admired brand right now, it's probably either Marie Forleo. Or Jenna Kutcher.

Chris Hill: I don't know either of those brands, so please tell me more.

Victory Harbin: Both of them are women who are killing it and just being like their authentic self. Both of them empower other women through their brands. And that's something that's really important to me as a business owner is just like, Empowering other people who look like me. You should definitely look at both of them.

Marie Forleo and Jenna Kutcher.

Chris Hill: And what, what do they do? Are they just influencers? Are they, what brand do they have?

Victory Harbin: They're more like educators. I'm like Jenna Kutcher has a bunch of marketing courses that teaches you how to use social media and email. And she was really good for me when I was just kind of getting my feet wet.

And Marie Forleo really teaches people how to build their business. through not just marketing, but other, other methodologies as well. And she wrote a book called Everything is Figureoutable. Great book. I

Chris Hill: love the name of that. Everything is figureoutable. Okay. Well, that's, that's really cool. Normally we get like Apple or Ferrari or something like that.

So this is, this is different. I like it. And yeah, they're definitely people that like, I mean, people are brands too. I mean, they're your personal brand is just as important as, um, as your business brand in this day and age, especially as you know, as you said earlier, like talking about Donald Miller and talking about how as a guide, you want to be known as the guide and that's what you love doing.

Like, I think part of that becomes like your personal brand and that's how you get known and grow a lot of times. So, um, all right. So last question, where can people connect with you? Where can people find out more about the social brand?

Victory Harbin: www. thesocialbrandtn, like tennessee. com. That's the best way to learn all about us.

Chris Hill: Very cool. And if people want to get in touch directly with you, do you have social media or anything where you want people to get in touch with you or?

Victory Harbin: Yeah, LinkedIn. I'm just Victory Harbin on LinkedIn. And Uh, I will say that you have to mention something about this podcast for me to like respond to you because I'm not a fringe strangers kind of girl on LinkedIn.

So, if you mention this podcast though, I'll definitely. Accept your friend request.

Chris Hill: Awesome. So noted. And for those who are interested in connecting with Victory, you tell her that you've listened to the podcast. Well, great. Well, Victory, thank you so much for coming on. We Built This Brand. I've really enjoyed having you on today.

Victory Harbin: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Chris. I really enjoyed being here.