Boldly Hitting the Kentucky Bourbon Trail with Katie Peninger

Katie Peninger: Explore and learn what all is out there that they never even knew. And, and, you know, speaking about those experiences, there are ultra modern experiences. There are very rustic experiences. It's really any kind of experience you want exists. So how do we help people find that?

Chris Hill: Welcome to We Build This Brand, the podcast where we talk to the creators and collaborators behind brands and help bring you valuable insights that you can use in growing your own business.

We're in Nashville, Tennessee. Today, I'm talking to Katie Peninger, VP of Account Service at Lewis Communications. This was a great conversation because we got to talk about the Bourbon Trail, how it got started, how she got into it, and some of the creative things that they've done with it for the 25th anniversary and what they're going to do beyond it.

So if you're interested in learning about the Bourbon Trail, or you just like bourbon in general, or you just like marketing and great strategy, this is a great conversation about all of that combined, and I think you'll enjoy it. So without further ado, here's my conversation with Katie Peninger

All right, Katie. Welcome to the show

Katie Peninger: Thank you so much, Chris. Thanks for having me.

Chris Hill: Absolutely. It's a pleasure. And I'm, I'm happy that we're able to be here at Raven here in Nashville, Tennessee today. It's a little bit of a different setup and I always love being able to do these in person when we can make it.

Katie Peninger: I was so excited to hear it was in person. So appreciated Raven helping us set this up and appreciate you being willing to come to Nashville.

Chris Hill: Absolutely. Thank you. And yeah, we're, we're happy to be out here doing this.

So let's dive into it. So you work at Lewis Communications. You're currently the VP of Account Service.

Katie Peninger: Yes.

Chris Hill: Is that right?

Katie Peninger: That is right.

Chris Hill: What I've always loved to do is learn how you get to where you are. So if you don't mind telling me like where, where did you start? I noticed you have like a Bachelor of Fine Arts. And you got to start there. So how did you get to where you are today?

Katie Peninger: Sure. I definitely don't have a probably typical account service background.

I actually started the first half of my career on the creative side of things. I went to Auburn for graphic design, got my first design job right out of school at a small agency in Indiana where my husband's from, and never imagined that this is the path that I would take. So it's interesting when you think back to, "if I would have known then would I have done things different," but I'm I'm so glad I didn't because, you know, it could have changed that trajectory.

So, um, but yeah, so being in a small agency, we wore a lot of hats, and I'm so grateful for that experience and that exposure to so many different sides of the business at the very beginning of my career, and so one of those was doing the account work in addition to the creative work. And over the years, and after 10 years of doing that, I started realizing I really had a love for the relationship building side of things for that account service piece.

And when I started, it was time to make a change. And I started started thinking about that more and exploring that more, and this opportunity at Lewis opened, and it was an account service role and I was actually on the board of AAF at the time with a copy, insanely talented copywriter that worked at Lewis at the time and she had been there for long, probably over 20 years, and you know, I was asking her about Lewis, and because it stuck out to me how long people had been there, which as you probably know, in this industry, that's not at agency, in agency life.

Chris Hill: Yeah, see a lot of turnover in these roles.

Katie Peninger: Exactly. And so, Lewis, I now understand why I've been there 11 years now. And so, I decided, okay, I'm going to try this, and I'm grateful they took a chance on a person that probably on paper, it was like, "Wait a minute. This is an odd split of create-, are you trying to be creative? Are you trying to do account service? What is this?" They took a chance on me, and here I am.

Chris Hill: That's, that's really cool. So, Um, when I think account service, I think you're helping clients with kind of the day in, day out, the operational, and also maybe providing some creative on top of that. Is that an accurate description of that?

Katie Peninger: Definitely working with the clients on those day-to-day needs, overseeing that, working with them from a strategic, high-level standpoint, working with our teams across departments, and being a part of those creative conversations, which I think is why, you know, the way Lewis is so collaborative across all departments, and the way we approach our clients business and work, I think it's what made that transition for me so much easier than I think it would have been at other places where things can tend to be more siloed potentially.

And so I think the collaborative nature of Lewis and how we all work together, I still feel very much a part of that creative process. It's just in a different way now.

Chris Hill: Yeah, that's, that's cool. When you've got an organization that's less siloed, I found when you're in a siloed group, you run into people that are like, well, that's not my job. I'm not going to handle that.

Katie Peninger: Exactly.

Chris Hill: Or my, my least favorite phrase, "It is what it is."

Katie Peninger: Oh gosh. Yes.

Chris Hill: It's like, Oh boy. Well, not helping.

Katie Peninger: Exactly. I know. You know, when we're talking to people and interviewing and they ask about the culture at Lewis, I always talk about, I feel like we have this culture that it's what needs to be done. How do I help accomplish that and get that done, even if it's not normally part of my quote unquote "role." It's very much a, uh, that collaborative spirit of what do we need to do as a team to accomplish what we're trying to accomplish? And I think that is a core piece of Lewis that I appreciate and love.

Chris Hill: And that's going to make people stick around too.

Katie Peninger: Exactly. Exactly. I think it's also nice to give people the opportunity to explore.

Everybody has so many different talents and things that they're good at that sometimes may not be within. What you would typically think of in that role definition, but I love that we have this culture of use people's strengths, whether it's technically a part of that role or not, how do we help people get to explore that and use that, which I think also makes it more fulfilling for people and what they're doing every day.

Chris Hill: That's really great because I don't think I would be like in my career where I'm at if I hadn't had bosses and other people that said, "Hey, you do that one weird thing. Could you come help me with that?" Like, "Oh, you do photography. Well, could you come shoot this? Could you do that?" Or, "Oh, we just want to do a silly video. Could you be a part of it?" And that just led me to learn and explore and get better at all these things, and I mean, I think that's a, that's a great way to keep people engaged and more involved in the company too, because they're like, "Hey, I get to use skills. I wouldn't otherwise use."

Katie Peninger: Right.

Chris Hill: Maybe uncover something about myself. I wouldn't uncover otherwise.

Katie Peninger: Exactly. Well, and I even take it back to, you know, I think about when I, I was interviewing at Lewis 11 years ago. I looked so different on paper, but I think that idea of people can have all different backgrounds and it's, it's what gets them to the spot that they're in, and that's an advantage and something that helps, you know, shape where somebody is on their journey that may not be the typical background, but it can be an advantage.

Chris Hill: For sure. Definitely. You know, in our, our business, I like being able to bring on people that have more than one thing that they're good at.

Katie Peninger: Yes.

Chris Hill: The more tools you have at your disposal, the more valuable you can be as a team member, and I think that, you know, people that bring a lot to the table are really good to have have at your disposals.

So when I was looking at over Lewis's website, one thing I noticed is that you all said you may help businesses make bold marketing decisions. Um, I actually really liked the way that and I'm going to butcher it because I'm not looking at a paper right now. I can't read it, but the way you all talk about, it's not just, not just people or companies, it's leaders.

You help leaders make those bold marketing decisions. And I found that to be one of the better business statements I've heard from an agency. Honestly, I don't know how long it took to come up with or the thought behind it, but I can see how that speaks to people making decisions. On their marketing and on their services.

Cause they're like, yeah, I want to, I'm the leader. I want to make the bold decision. So I thought that was really clever and you're welcome. And I was just curious, like, how does that phrase, how does that concept really play out?

Katie Peninger: Absolutely. I think that is something that is so important to all of us in the idea of really being a partner to our clients and making sure that we understand what they are trying to accomplish and then arming them with everything that they need to be able to make those informed decisions and know that recommendations that we are bringing or things that we may be trying to push them to do, bringing them the data behind it, the reasons behind the why behind it to help them feel confident in making those decisions.

But at the end of the day, I think it's really about that partnership that we believe in with clients.

Chris Hill: Absolutely.

And I noticed you all had worked with some industriesy that might be a little older and more traditional, need a little bit of a nudge. Like, for instance, the Kentucky Bourbon Trail, which has a special place in my heart

Katie Peninger: Mine as well.

Chris Hill: for so many reasons. But um, tell me, tell me about that.

Katie Peninger: So, you know, working with the Kentucky Bourbon Trail has just been a dream,

and in my 20 plus years, it's truly one of my fave- most favorite things I've ever worked on, and I think it's that full package of finding a client that wants a partner. They're looking for a partner. And so it's somebody that we can be collaborative with. We bring them ideas. There's a trust. There's an open communication there that I think in our world, that's how we do our best work.

And I think that's how clients do their best work because you can have that open dialogue. You can point out truths to them that I think sometimes it's easy for people to, you know, it's why you need outside perspective, and I think, you know, it's not lost on us. We're a Tennessee agency working on the Kentucky Bourbon Trail, which is such an honor to us.

There's so much talent in that whole area, and I think that outside perspective, though, was something they were ready for and needed to be able to ultimately help them move forward. They had one of the best problems, which is they outgrew themselves. What a great problem to have.

Chris Hill: Yeah. Yeah.

Katie Peninger: And then it was the 25th anniversary and they recognized it was time to figure out what does the future look like.

And there were no rules. And it's interesting when I even think all the way back to their RFP process, which I've heard this on other episodes you've talked about, and I so share that philosophy, RFPs, I think everybody's got a lot of mixed feelings about those.

Chris Hill: Right.

Katie Peninger: And what I appreciated about theirs, there were no rules that I think so often RFPs come in with all of these strict rules because they're coming through a procurement process that I think limits agencies and limits how you're able to really make that best first introduction for them to get to know you. And since this did not have the rules, we approached it in such a different way because we threw out all those rules and it was like, oh my gosh, finally an opportunity to answer this the way we always wish we could answer it.

And we did that. And we did our homework and, but I feel like that set the stage for us because we also don't answer every RFP because they're very time consuming. And you want to make sure it's going to be the right fit. But this one, I think, that was even an indication from how they issued their RFP and approach that process that, okay, these are our people. You know, they're going through this process, but they're not trying to put all these parameters on it that I think was indicative of a client that really is looking for that true partner and not just

check some boxes just to make a decision.

Chris Hill: That's great.

So what are some of those things that you all proposed and even some of the things that you enacted during during this project?

Katie Peninger: Oh, my gosh. Again, I could talk about this one for days. It's been such a fun one. We've been, we're coming up on two years now and, you know, we started our deep dive with them and doing our discovery and research, which we actually started some of that in that RFP response.

We brought in a local bourbon club that my husband is a part of and asked them to come in and do a share and let us just listen to them talk and then ask them questions. And so, you know, we started, as we do with any of our clients, we want to really understand from a 360 view, what are they dealing with?

And I think with the Kentucky Bourbon Trail, it's really interesting because when you think about it, you're really trying to build something that supports, you know, they have 46 members and growing. It's not just one brand. You're trying to build something that can support all of those brands and the state of Kentucky.

And it's so much bigger, and we saw that immediately. And especially as, you know, we spent more time on The Trail talking to all of these distilleries, and, and we are big believers and we want to talk to people throughout an organization. So talking to the frontline workers of these distilleries, talking to the owners, um, to really make sure that we understood why, what are we trying to solve here, and how do we help create the best foundation for their future that they can evolve and grow from for the next 25 years and beyond.

Chris Hill: That's a huge undertaking. Kentucky. I mean, I used to live in Kentucky. I have been to the Bourbon Trail as we talked about before we got rolling.

I even started dating my wife. I guess again, it's a long story. It's not really for the podcast.

Katie Peninger: We'll have to talk about that story one day.

Chris Hill: We'll definitely, I'll definitely tell you offline, but, um, yeah. We dated, we broke up, we got back together and we're like, we're leaving. We went to Woodford reserve together to get a bottle of bourbon engraved for a cousin of hers who lived in Turkey.

Katie Peninger: Oh my gosh.

Chris Hill: And so we went there to get that engraved, and yeah, it was a lot of, it was a lot of fun. We had a good time. And after our tour was over, we left and I was like, "Hey, maybe, maybe we should give this a shot again." And that's when it all started back.

Katie Peninger: See, bourbon brings people together.

Chris Hill: It really does in so many ways. And, and I hadn't had enough to say the bourbon was an influence on that decision for sure, but, but it was definitely quite the experience and it was a lot of fun getting to go out there. But yeah, I've, I just feel like places like Woodford and all that, they're all very unique. Their approach to bourbon is very different.

And everybody has their own approach and they have their own focus. And I just, yeah, I'm a huge fan of bourbon overall. So I love that. And I think I may have mentioned this to you before we got started, started with this recording, but I also was the committee chair for the Knoxville Ale Trail, which is craft beer, but very similar, and we definitely emulated a lot of what we saw the Kentucky Bourbon Trail doing as we tried to figure out how to build a way to drive tourism to Knoxville for craft beer lovers and just in the way you would do for bourbon in Kentucky. So I know on a small scale, at least, the challenges that you face when you're, when you're dealing with a lot of different personalities, a lot of different people and a lot of different distilleries that want to have something a certain way.

So it's a lot of a challenge there cause you got to herd those cats, and then you have to make a decision on an aesthetic and a look and do something that's going to bring attention to the Bourbon Trail for what it is in this 25th anniversary.

So I will say one of the things when I was doing research, I noticed was the website is a big redesign, and I was really thrilled to see that because prior to that redesign, I just remember being like, "Okay, I can find what I'm looking for. But that's it." And this seems to be a little bit more like tourism focused, a little bit more accommodating for people that are like, I don't live in Kentucky, and I want to come try to at least visit part of The Trail on my trip.

So tell me more about that.

Katie Peninger: Oh, my gosh, it's like you were in our minds. And I'm so glad that was your takeaway from it, because it says, "It's working!" Because, you know, back to even your original question on some of the things that we uncovered for them in that outside perspective, you're right. There's so many different personalities. There's so many different experiences on The Trail that you're trying to bring together, and one of the biggest things that we realized is the need for simplification because there are so many. And when, if you've never experienced it, even if you have been on it, it can be overwhelming. And then you mix in the landscape of Kentucky.

It is this gorgeous, beautiful rolling hills, but it is spread out,

and I think, you know, there were a lot of misconceptions and perceptions.

Chris Hill: Right.

Katie Peninger: That you're also facing from a lot of different aspects that we realized there's a lot to do here. How do we simplify it? How do we make sure people understand the experience that The Trail offers that they have no idea exists because they have preconceptions in their mind? You know, how do we make sure that we are representing all of these distilleries in the best way possible to get people to come? And, you know, and in their case, they, they don't have a problem getting people to come. They, it's, again, it's a great problem to have, but in our research and talking to the distilleries and especially those frontline workers and the challenges that they face, we realized they had a problem with uneducated people coming to The Trail that didn't understand tours fill up. You should be booking three months in advance. You need to plan your transportation accordingly. You can't hit all of the distilleries in a day. Some people thought, "I'm just gonna spend a couple days, and I'll go to all of them." I mean, you could spend weeks. We spent a solid week on The Trail and made it to, I think 26, and that was going nonstop every day. And, you know, we were talking to people at all of these, but that's what we heard loud and clear from them is it makes their job harder. So we saw an opportunity to do so much more with the web experience that we were creating because we realized we've got to educate people when they first start even thinking about coming. We want to educate them on what to expect and how to plan their trip, which also is going to lead to a better educated person coming to The Trail, who, it's a better experience for them because some of these people, too, when they travel, and they show up, and they can't get on a tour, they're not always so happy.

Chris Hill: No, you're pretty upset.

Katie Peninger: Exactly. And what that I think put on the distilleries is, and kudos to them for the incredible job that they have done in figuring out how to navigate those situations.

Because every one of them has come up with, and continue to come up with new experiences because there's an element of that that I think they're always gonna face, especially depending on where they're located. So they are trying to get ahead of that, and I think, you know, with that hospitality at the heart of all of the people in that industry, they are so focused on how do we make this the best experience possible even if it can't be the full experience. You've got distilleries that have created quick 15 minute tastings that they can get a lot of people in and out so at least they have something to offer, which I think, you know, so anyway. Again, I could, I could go on there so much.

Chris Hill: Well, you're, you're, you're hitting on an important point because I can tell you from personal experience, a friend of mine and I decided we were going to go do the Bourbon Trail, and we went to Louisville the night before. We were going to, you know, go up there and hit up some of the local distilleries, and unfortunately for me, I actually did get all the Bourbon Trails, all the places I wanted to go.

Katie Peninger: Oh, that's great.

Chris Hill: In one bar.

Katie Peninger: Oh, nice. Where did you go?

Chris Hill: I can't even remember, which is why I know I hit everything and it was just one bar, and I'll leave it at that.

Katie Peninger: Yes!

Chris Hill: It was, it was, it ended up, like, killing our experience, but, but, but, but I mean that like, I just remember that research process and going like, "I've, I've lived in Lexington, I should know where to go," and looking through and trying to even find the places to go and figure out what was available.

Like, yeah, it's difficult.

Katie Peninger: Well, and you know, that was another thought behind the website. If we. We looked at how do we help people understand the landscape of Kentucky because you've got people coming from other states who don't realize how spread out, other countries who really don't understand how spread out Kentucky is. And we'd hear these stories of people flying into Louisville, and going to a distillery, and ubering from the airport, and thinking they can get an uber back to Louisville, and they're stuck. And again, these distilleries are helping figure out, you know, how to navigate this and what to do. But, but that's why when we think about the education that we can do on the front end to make that better, not just for the consumer, which is obviously a first priority, but also for the distilleries and how we help make their lives easier throughout that experience for somebody. So that's been a big focus. And, you know, we looked at regions across, we tried to break it down by regions, and put in planning tools to help people start to understand this because that's another piece, too, is it was unanimous with everybody we heard from. We want people to slow down and experience it because it's different everywhere. And I think if you're just trying to rush to get to as many places as possible, you're missing out on so much. It's, it's a place you could have 10 different experiences on 10 different trips, and then more, even more after that.

So how do we get people to slow down, to enjoy the experience, to plan their trips better? So that was a large focus for the website of how do we make that easier and, and support.

Chris Hill: Yeah. Well, with over 40 distilleries that you're dealing with, do you all still have the passport program with that where people can get stamps at every distillery and is there some reward for that?

Is that still part of it or is that part of what you did to kind of like slow it down is keep people from being as crazy of completionists with the project?

Katie Peninger: Exactly. That has been a something we've talked a lot about and how we wanted to really get people to, exactly what you said, slow down. We don't want to incentivize a rushed experience.

We want people to explore and learn what all is out there that they never even knew. And, and, you know, speaking about those experiences, there are ultra modern experiences. There are very rustic experiences. It's really any kind of experience you want exists. So how do we help people find that? So everything has been a focus on how do we help people slow down and enjoy it.

Chris Hill: And I also hear like when, when this all got kicked off, y'all did some sort of big live stream too.

Katie Peninger: Oh my gosh.

Chris Hill: Tell me about that because I heard something like 24 hours non stop streaming bourbon.

Katie Peninger: Yes, this was such an exciting, one of those things that started out as a small idea that I keep saying it, you know, it just kept spiraling in the best way possible and growing.

And so we hosted a, it was technically 26 hours because we decided we wanted to hit every time zone in the world, and we learned a lot about time zones. Um, admittedly, uh, I think a lot of us thought there were 24. There's not. It's, it's so much more complicated and even some that fall on half hours. And it was a huge learning experience.

Um, so technically 26 hours, you know, even the logistics that went into that from a streaming perspective, we were on calls with Zoom and, you know, navigating, trying to figure out how do we cross 24 hours? Because everybody we were talking to is like, "We've actually never live streamed anything for more than 24 hours. We've done 16 hours, 18 hours, but not more than 24 hours." And so there were a lot of things like that that we had to figure out along the way. But yes, we kicked that off at 9 p.m. on the 16th to start the 17th in our first time zone, and we got people from all around the world to participate in this. And so we ended up having, I believe we had 32 countries participate. Six continents. We even had somebody from Fiji login. We're like, how did they even hear about this? This is amazing. But it was, it was something that the more people heard about it, and everybody wanted to participate in it. So we tried to make it an experience, a virtual experience that you could participate in with a group of people, by yourself in your home, or join a group someplace. And the distilleries participated, and we had live guests, and top of the hour, we had a video that would play just kind of introducing this idea, and what we were doing, and then we would talk to some live guests, and come back up for the next hour. So, uh, it was a really fun experience, and I think it blew us away with it was even more successful than we even imagined. We didn't know what to expect because again, this was a totally new idea. We're like, let's see if this works and we're planning the next one next year.

Chris Hill: Wow. That's exciting. So you're going to do this again.

Katie Peninger: We are.

Chris Hill: Oh gosh.

Katie Peninger: This is going to be an annual.

Chris Hill: Well, the media production side of me goes, "Oh, blessings on all those people."

Oh man, to keep everything up and going and to do all that. Like I just, I know the back end logistics of that are probably a lot of fun to handle.

Katie Peninger: Yes. Yes. It was a labor of love that we had great partners to work with, and, and I think everybody was so excited and running on adrenaline for this that it was just, it, it actually went by really fast and by the end it was like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe this is already almost over."

Chris Hill: That's a, that's probably a lot of shots of bourbon in about 26 hours I would imagine too.

Katie Peninger: Slow sips. Slow sips. Um, yes. Yeah.

Chris Hill: I've, I've learned cause I actually part of how this whole thing got started was doing a craft beer podcast. So I've learned like, don't go too fast. Yeah. If you want to sound good and intelligent on the mic, you got to hold back a little bit.

Katie Peninger: Yes. Exactly.

Chris Hill: That's awesome. We could, like you said, we could probably nerd out about the Bourbon Trail for ages and ages. And that's really cool. But like.

What else is top of mind for you right now? As you think about going into 2025 in the future, obviously you have another live stream plan, but what else, what other exciting things maybe outside of the Bourbon Trail are you working on?

Are you excited to look at for the future?

Katie Peninger: Oh gosh, there's so many things right now. I feel like it's a really exciting time between, um, just. new clients that are coming on board that we're excited to work with. And I think just with how our industry is continuing to change and is changing in such a fast way that I think all of that's exciting for 2025.

Chris Hill: Another thing I noticed that we had in common is that you are on the board of AMA here in Nashville. Yes!

Katie Peninger: I actually, I heard in one of your episodes you were the president or are the president.

Chris Hill: Past president. Past president. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Katie Peninger: Yes. Yes. That's great.

Chris Hill: Yeah. So what's it like here in Nashville?

What's the AMA chapter scene? I've met some of your folks and I can't remember names right off the top of my head, but I met some of your folks at the national retreat

Katie Peninger: Oh that's great!

Chris Hill: two or three years ago and we had a blast with the Nashville folks. So I have a special place in my heart for y'all.

Katie Peninger: Oh, that's awesome.

Such a great group of people. And you know, I'm new to AMA over the last couple of years and it has been so rewarding to be a part of because of how many incredible people. are a part of that. And I think like so many organizations like that, everybody's trying to still, I think, recover after COVID and get people back together.

But I think it's exciting to see events where more and more people are starting to show up in person again. And I think everybody's been missing that in-person time.

Chris Hill: Yeah, well the, the dynamics post-COVID, cause I was a part of the chapter pre-COVID into post-COVID and actually I've been president, not this is not to brag, but I've been president twice.

Um, The second time was like, okay, I'll do it. Um, I could tell where this conversation is going, but it was, you know, it was quite the challenge to get people together, to build community and, and we find ourselves kind of leaning on similar things in Knoxville of like, "Hey, we need to bring this together as a community of folks and not just rely on maybe the old traditional, 'Oh, we're going to have a luncheon and hope that people show up and talk about fun things.'"

Katie Peninger: Exactly. Yes. We're in that same stage of just trying to, you know, continue to brainstorm the programming that people, what do people care about? What are they interested in? What do they want to take time out of their day to come and be a part of? So, um, but I think there's a lot of great energy around it and we're excited for the year ahead.

Chris Hill: That's awesome.

It's a pleasure to, um, to be able to chat about all this. I always like to end the conversation on the question, what is the brand that you admire the most right now?

Katie Peninger: There are so many great brands out there, but I'll answer this from the perspective of one that I've admired for a long time is Patagonia.

When I think about authenticity, and I actually, I think, learned so much from another podcast, How I Built This, where they, I love that one as well. Another great one. And Just listening and seeing what that brand does and the realization that, you know, it's such an example of it starts at the top, and to have a brand that lives the culture that they are creating both internally and externally, and they're not trying to be somebody that they're not in the first to say we're not a fashion brand.

That's not what we're trying to be. I think that kind of authenticity is something that a lot of people are trying to figure out how to make sure they are being authentic. So I think it's such a great example of that for so many reasons.

Chris Hill: Patagonia this year has been a brand that I've continued to fall in love with for a couple of reasons.

But one of the things that really impressed me was they did a ad campaign about children's clothes that, at first, I got really annoyed with because I'm a parent, and I know how expensive and how quickly you go through clothes, but the minute the turn came, and you found out that they're really talking about parents sharing clothes, and having ways to make it more feasible for families to get access to really good quality clothing, like, I thought that was really cool. I thought that was a nice change, and of course they're all about sustainability, which I really love. Um, and I've also taken up fly fishing this year, and I got one of their fly fishing bags, and I love just that little twist of branding they do. Instead of a mountain range, they have a trout as they're with the Patagonia logo on it.

I just, I adore that. I don't know why. But I adore it.

Katie Peninger: Yes. Well, and that example with the children's clothes, that's exactly what I'm, what makes me love them so much is it's not about just trying to sell a product. It's really living and doing what they are. you know, from, for the world. How do we make this a better place?

How do we know that insight about who we're trying to get to buy our product, but it's not just about selling another product.

Chris Hill: Cause I really don't want to spend $90 on a, on a jacket for my daughter. I would much rather do a hand me downs.

Katie Peninger: Right, right.

Chris Hill: That, that thought, that process of sustainability and community, I think is really cool.

So. That's awesome. All right.

Well, Katie, where can people learn more about Lewis Communications? Where can they connect with you?

Katie Peninger: Yes, we are on all the social channels at lewiscommunications.com. I'm on LinkedIn, and so yeah, they can find us there.

Chris Hill: All righty. Well, Katie, thank you so much for coming on today.

Katie Peninger: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure meeting you and learning more about you.

Chris Hill: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. All right. Alrighty. And that's it from the pantheon of podcasts that we have available. If you enjoyed this episode of us on the road, be sure to share this episode with your friends so that we can continue to go on the road and build this brand.